Author Topic: Unless Otherwise or Unless?  (Read 11891 times)

Michael E. Galario

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Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« on: August 12, 2016, 01:12:59 PM »
Hi sir,

Could you please explain the semantic difference between the usage of "Unless Otherwise" and "Unless" in a sentence. Are there any definitive rules set as to when to use each type/structure?

Examples:

       "You may smoke unless otherwise instructed." Versus "You may smoke unless instructed."

Thank you. ☺
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Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 09:35:51 PM »
In the sentences you presented, the adverb "otherwise" means the negator "to the contrary." The sentence "You may smoke unless otherwise instructed" is thus the equivalent of the logically and semantically correct sentence "You may smoke unless instructed to the contrary." In contrast, the sentence "You may smoke unless instructed" is illogical and semantically incorrect, a statement that negates and contradicts itself.

solid9

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2016, 12:19:05 PM »
Isn't it "Unless Otherwise" is redundant?
If you saw my grammar is wrong, then correct me if I'm wrong. This is why I'm here to learn English.

Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2016, 03:18:22 PM »
Not at all. It's military or bureaucratic phraseology that demands strict obedience to rules and instructions on pain of being disciplined or punished.

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 09:35:20 AM »
Hi Sir Joe, just a follow-up. The sentence " You may smoke unless instructed" is illogically and semantically incorrect due to the fact that it negates and contradicts itself. Could you please provide a brief prescription on how to correctly use "unless" in sentences with respect to semantics and syntax. Thank you.
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Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 11:13:43 AM »
"Unless" is a conjunction that means "except on the condition that" or "under any other circumstance than." Semantically then, it's the equivalent of "only if" and works properly given this syntax: "You may" + verb + "only if" + adjective describing a condition, as in "You may smoke only if allowed to do so" and "You may go only if you have nothing else to do." In effect, the statement is a conditional double negative. Clearly, these two sentences are the semantic and syntactic equivalent of "You may smoke unless allowed to do so" and "You may go unless you have nothing else to do."

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2016, 08:58:04 PM »
Hi sir joe, just want to make sure that I understood your explanation correctly. Is the sentence mentioned just semantically wrong because of diction but structurally correct or is it both - semantically wrong and structurally defective?

Thank you.
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Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 12:12:10 AM »
I understand your confusion, Michael, and it's because I committed a grammar error. I missed out putting the word "not" in the first equivalent sentence given by the last statement. The sentences should read "You may smoke unless not allowed to do so" and "You may go unless you have nothing else to do." You can see that these two sentences share the attribute of having a positive main clause ("you may smoke" and "you may go") linked by the conditional negator "unless" to a negative clause ("not allowed to do so" and "you have nothing else to do"). I trust that this correction has sufficiently clarified the matter. My apologies for the mix-up.

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 07:17:50 AM »
Hi sir Joe,

Thank you for your reply. ☺

What I have understood from your explanation is that if the word unless, a conditional negator, is used in a sentence, the second clause should be in the negative structure.

       Pattern: Positive Clause unless Negative Clause

        You may go unless you have nothing else to do.
        You may smoke unless not allowed to do so.

I would just like to have confirmation sir. If I remember it correctly, the pattern could go either way.

         Pattern: Positive Clause unless Negative Clause
                                     or
                      Negative Clause unless Positive Clause

         Example: You may not smoke unless allowed to do so.

Also, I would just like to know if the negation is only based on the structure of a sentence - that is with the use of negating words such as but not limited to the following: no, not and never - or based on structure and meaning. See examples below.

         Example: You'll be sick unless you stop eating.
                        Unless he was very ill, he would be at work.
                        She would be here by now unless she was stuck in traffic.

Moreover, is it required to have one of the clauses in the negative structure whenever using the word "unless"?
What about the case/structure of the below sentence?

I’ll make dinner unless somebody else wants to.


I'm sorry I have too many questions sir. I only want to eliminate my uncertainties in this topic.



« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:51:34 AM by Michael E. Galario »
"The only thing that's worse than not knowing how to do something is to do something wrong while believing that it's right."

Remember: We may know something but definitely not everything.

Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 02:06:01 PM »
I’m extremely hesitant to endorse or offer a hard-and-fast rule for ensuring that clauses linked by the conditional negator “unless” will always make sense. As you pointed out, it’s generally true that for clauses linked by “unless,” the sentence takes either the “Positive Clause + unless + Negative Clause” pattern or the “Negative Clause + unless + Positive Clause” pattern, as in the sentences “You may smoke unless not allowed to do so” or “You may not smoke unless allowed to do so,” respectively. However, I think that the more reliable determinants for the semantic and logical soundness of “unless”-linked clauses are the grammar, operative verb, sense, and logic of the clauses themselves.

Take the case of this example that you’ve offered: “You’ll be sick unless you stop eating.” This sentence clearly doesn’t follow either of the two patterns you presented above, and neither of the two clauses linked by “unless” has the negator “not” or any of its equivalents. Instead, what we have here are two affirmative statements linked by “unless” following this structure: “Affirmative statement 1 + unless + affirmative statement 2.” Evidently, what’s at work here isn’t just the mechanical structure of the linkage but the collective sense and meaning created by all of the grammatical elements, the verb in particular, that constitute the sentence.

To further validate this point, let’s take a look at further variations of some of the other sentences you presented:

Original: “You'll be sick unless you stop eating.”
Variations:
1. “You’ll be sick unless you start eating.”
2. “You’ll be sick unless the weather clears.”
3. “You’ll be sick unless you get enough rest.”
4. “You’ll be sick unless you take this medication.”

Comment: The clauses neither follow the two patterns you provided nor have explicit negators within them. The linking conditional negator “unless” suffices.

Original: “I’ll make dinner unless somebody else wants to.”
Variations:
1. “I’ll make dinner unless you want to order fast-food.”
2. “I’ll make dinner unless last night’s leftover food is OK with you.”
3. “I’ll make dinner unless your meeting tonight is pushing through.”
4. “I’ll make dinner unless you want to make dinner yourself.”

Comment: None of the “unless”-linked clauses is structured negatively. The linking conditional negator “unless” suffices.

We can go on and on with so many other examples of “unless”-linked clauses that are not governed by the patterns you described, but to eliminate all uncertainty on whether the sentences they form are grammatically, semantically or logically aboveboard, we just have to check them individually and let our inner ear decide if they make perfect sense or not. It’s in the nature of language, especially English I must say, to allow for lots of play beyond the basic rules we are taught in grammar school.

INTERESTING RELATED READING:
A recurrent glaring grammar error on “News on Q”

« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 07:18:06 AM by Joe Carillo »

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 06:50:35 AM »
This last explanation of yours, sir Joe, is much clearer and more comprehensive compared to the previous postings. In conclusion, we can ,therefore, say that the usage of unless is not restricted to the structure described above. Its structure depends on the intended meaning (semantics). For beginners, following the aforementioned pattern would be a good start in learning how it's used and once learned, then they can  study the other possible patterns.

The takeaways for me from our discussion would be:

1. Unless Basic Pattern: Positive Clause + unless + Negative Clause or Negative Clause + unless + Positive Clause
2. Unless structure is not only restricted to the pattern as described in number 1.
3. One must consider diction - choice and use of words, semantics - meaning, and grammatical structure in constructing sentences using the conjunction "unless".

Have I missed any point sir?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 11:27:09 AM by Michael E. Galario »
"The only thing that's worse than not knowing how to do something is to do something wrong while believing that it's right."

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Joe Carillo

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 07:19:36 AM »
I think we got everything right now. Cheers!

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Unless Otherwise or Unless?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2016, 08:13:10 AM »
Thank you sir Joe for the clarification and confirmation. I'll study the other structures one of these days ☺☺☺

Right now, I'm studying the topic about determiners and its types. Sir Joe, just a heads up, if I encounter perplexing topic, i'll ask you for help. Thank you. ☺☺☺

"The only thing that's worse than not knowing how to do something is to do something wrong while believing that it's right."

Remember: We may know something but definitely not everything.