Messages

31

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 13, 2016, 07:35:19 PM »

Hi sir Joe,

I have just read your reply to my question. Thank you for the reply.  I visited the link you provided; however, the discussions only cover the general usage of the present tense and all the examples use the indirect report structure. The prescriptions about tense usage do not cover the concern in question whether there is a tense dependency if one would use a relative clause describing the subject or the object of a sentence.

While waiting for your answer, I did some research and read that the tense dependency on the main clause by relative clauses is not observed. With all the examples presented here, my observation and readings led me to conclude that the sequence of tenses only operates in indirect structure, complex sentences which use subordinating conjunctions or adverbial clauses, and in paragraph level but with exceptions. Syntax and semantics play a great role in the sequence of tenses usage in the said structures.Only semantics, on the other hand, plays a role in tense usage in relative clauses.

32

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 11, 2016, 07:06:45 AM »

I found some sir Joe! ☺

Here are the examples taken from "Elements of Language" by Holt:

       "The clerk who is waiting on us was smiling."
       "Salmon, which live in salt water but spawn in fresh water, flourished in the Northwest."
       "Sandra lent the book to the girl who is her lab partner."
       "Georgia gave me the phone number of the man who organizes the softball league."

examples from other sources:

        "The number that is in my book was incorrect."
        "Jack drove the car that is small. "
        "The prison that/which is located in San Francisco Bay was a depressing place to live."
        "I gave it to Peter, who is my close friend."
        "Sue recently won a prize, which she never stops talking about."


May I know your thoughts on this sir Joe. ☺




 

      

33

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 11, 2016, 06:12:58 AM »

Hi Sir Joe,

I've found a couple of examples which are not structured like that of the indirect speech.

       Examples:

      1. The people who you met at the party are all old friends of mine.
      2. The book which I’m reading comes from the library.

      3. The tall man is my uncle. The tall man was standing by the bar.
          Subordination: The tall man that was standing by the bar is my uncle.
          
      4. The newspaper is being sued. The newspaper first reported the incident.
          Subordination: The newspaper that first reported the incident is being sued.

For examples 1 and 2, there is no problem. The tense combination in the matrix clause and subordinate clause is possible since the operative verb is in the present tense.

For examples 3 and 4, the structure is the same, but I would just like to know If we can we combine the above sentences as in the examples below:

       3. The tall man who is my uncle was standing by the bar.
       4. The newspaper which is being sued first reported the incident.

34

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 10, 2016, 01:23:55 PM »

Hi sir Joe,

These are what I have gathered from my readings, but this is an indirect speech exception as can be seen from the examples below:

Example: :

"A New Orleans hydrologist said flow of the Mississippi River, which runs through the city, dropped considerably last year"

"The highway department spokesman said that the new highway, which connects three southeast Kansas cities to the turnpike, was closed in three places by flooding. "

The above examples clearly defy the SOT rule.  Accordingly, "Not every verb in a reported speech sentence is automatically subordinate to the past tense verb of attribution. The sentence might contain a non-restrictive clause that includes a verb. Such a verb would not be subordinate to the verb of attribution and might need to remain in the present tense if the meaning of the clause is to be retained. "

Basing on the examples above, the SOT rule prescription that is printed on most of the grammar references and that is being prescribed by teachers and grammarians then needs to be tweaked so as to include the exception(s). The above examples clearly tell us that the SOT does not operate in non-restrictive clauses in indirect speech. The examples used in the non-restrictive clauses above tell about "facts".   That's why the use of present tense is justified, but what is not certain is if it covers idea which is true at the moment of speaking.


May I know you thought on this sir Joe?

By the way, I am still looking for examples of sentences that don't make use of an indirect speech structure.

35

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 10, 2016, 10:30:28 AM »

Sure sir Joe!

This topic, for me, is really difficult to nail down, but if this is answered, it will help me a lot in my understanding of tenses and developing my communicative competence. Most often than not knowing what I don't know makes me caught off guard. It gives me that feeling of uneasiness whenever I speak or write. I just don't want to make use of the language by simply parroting/copying English phrases and sentences based on how how I read or heard it from the English or native speaker. I believe that if one would really like to make use of the language creatively and confidently, he/she must know it by heart. Knowing the English syntax and semantics can help anyone play with words.

36

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 10, 2016, 05:34:36 AM »

Thank you for clarifying and confirming this sir Joe. What about with relative clauses? Do they obey the sequence- of - tenses rule in English?

Examples:

This is the woman who was at the party yesterday. ( pointing the woman at the moment of speaking)
              
The girl who is singing the song right now had an affair with the CEO. (singing happens at the moment of speaking; affair was in the past and may no longer be true at the present time)

Mark Anthony who was caught with Marijuana now rots in jail.

Can we say the sequence-of-tenses only operates on indirect speech and sentences that use adverbial clauses?

37

Use and Misuse / Re: Noun Clause Tense

« on: October 09, 2016, 11:44:14 AM »

Hi sir,

Just want to ask you about the tense usage in noun clauses functioning as a subject of a sentence. Do noun clauses grammatically functioning as subjects in a sentence follow the sequence-of-tenses rule?

What I had for breakfast gave me heartburn.      (The action was contained in the past.)

What she did remains a mystery.                       ( The action happened in the past but the effect is still true
                                                                         at  the present time.)

How media are reporting the news is being scrutinized by the public.

How she maintains her body bothered me for a while.           (Could this structure be possible?)


Hope you can give me a clear-cut explanation on this.


Thank you.

Hi sir Joe,

May I know your thoughts on this? Thank you.

38

Use and Misuse / Re: hold vs held?

« on: September 23, 2016, 09:34:29 AM »

Hi solid9,

The correct verb form to use is "held".

So, the sentence should be rendered as: " It will be held.


Analysis:

1. The sentence you provided is in the passive structure.
2. It's tense is in the simple future.

    See example below:

             Active Voice                                             Passive Voice
         WILL + base form of verb                             WILL + BE + Past Participle of Verb

    They will finish the work.         -------->             The work will be finished by them.

3. Remember to use Past Participles in:

                     a. Passive sentence construction
                     b. Perfect tenses:    has/have/had eaten
                     c. adjectives modifying noun : drunken master, broken promise, advanced math


Hope this helps.

39

Use and Misuse / Noun Clause Tense

« on: September 22, 2016, 01:34:41 PM »

Hi sir,

Just want to ask you about the tense usage in noun clauses functioning as a subject of a sentence. Do noun clauses grammatically functioning as subjects in a sentence follow the sequence-of-tenses rule?

What I had for breakfast gave me heartburn.      (The action was contained in the past.)

What she did remains a mystery.                       ( The action happened in the past but the effect is still true
                                                                         at  the present time.)

How media are reporting the news is being scrutinized by the public.

How she maintains her body bothered me for a while.           (Could this structure be possible?)


Hope you can give me a clear-cut explanation on this.


Thank you.

40

Badly Written, Badly Spoken / Yellow journalism

« on: September 22, 2016, 09:32:19 AM »

Hi sir Joe,

What can you say about the headline below that appeared on the Manila Bulletin:

   "Witnesses finger Leila."

It sounds offensive and inappropriate for me. Offensive in the sense that it gives double meaning in the Filipino context (I know that you know what I meant by this) and inappropriate in the sense that, I'm pretty sure, there is a better word to use than this word.

41

You Asked Me This Question / Re: Why Pinoy writers strongly prefer the modals ‘would’ and ‘could’ (1)

« on: September 14, 2016, 11:29:44 AM »

Hi sir Joe,

It's an undeniable fact that majority of Filipinos are struggling with the use of the modal verbs especially that English is not our first language and I am no exception to this. I also noticed the same in my workplace.

Honestly, I couldn't/can't agree with you more when you explained the usage of the modal verbs and how each conditional sentence is structured. However, I would just like to know,  aside from knowing how each modal is used in conditional sentences,  could we say that ,sometimes, the choice of modals is reflective of writer/speaker's attitude towards what he/she asserts?

42

You Asked Me This Question / Re: Why Pinoy writers strongly prefer the modals ‘would’ and ‘could’ (3)

« on: September 14, 2016, 10:57:23 AM »

Hi sir Joe,

Will you not cover the topic about mixed conditionals?

43

You Asked Me This Question / Re: Attribution, Comma and Colon

« on: September 08, 2016, 10:58:13 AM »

Sure sir. Thank you


It is indeed true that "The more we learn, the less we understand." ☺

44

You Asked Me This Question / Re: Attribution, Comma and Colon

« on: September 08, 2016, 09:25:37 AM »

Hi sir,

Thank you for the answer. Just a question though about the ordering of usage. Was this ordering based on an established convention or was this based on your personal observation?

Thank you.

45

Use and Misuse / Re: Relative Markers: As Determiners and As Pronouns

« on: September 08, 2016, 09:20:19 AM »

no worries, sir. ☺☺☺

I'll try my best to figure it out. I'll set it aside for the time being and continue on my study of the reported speech. Once I have somehow had a good grasp of it, I'll get back to determiners and study this topic in details. ☺☺☺