Messages

1

Use and Misuse / Re: When to use "have had" ?

« on: February 18, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »

We shall see, sir.    As to the matter of Google hits and their validity as markers of correct usage, you need look no farther that that regrettable American idiom, "off of".   Google records a staggering 17+ BILLION hits for it, but that, to me, makes it no less unacceptable.

2

Use and Misuse / Re: When to use "have had" ?

« on: February 17, 2013, 04:16:33 PM »

Sir, you should check your Google "facts" more closely.  Here is what "Adrian" says in the LanguageLog site you referred me to:   "you really do need to do a "sticky" blogpost about Google hits and what they mean. I defy anyone to find more than 30 examples of "will have had gone" on the internet.

[(myl) That's a good point — Google's usual merely egregious over-estimation really goes bananas in this case. Bing actually claims just 24 results. Google claims "about 249,000,000 results", but will only show us 69 of them; and at least 32 of those are quotes or re-publications of this Language Log post, leaving only 69-32 = 37 possible hits. And some of those are clearly typographical errors and the like.

So I think we might get higher than 30 real examples — but the validated total is going to be closer to 30 than to 249 million…"   

To adapt to your standards of credibility, I will say that, in all my travels in North America, Europe, New Zealand and other Commonwealth countries (and in your own Luzon), and in my teaching of ESL, I have never heard the "I will have had gone.." construction as a future perfect.

Indeed, since you agree that the use of determining adverbs is the more elegant (I would say correct) way to establish aspect, one wonders why you didn't establish that in your original post.

3

Use and Misuse / Re: When to use "have had" ?

« on: February 17, 2013, 10:09:42 AM »

Sir, herewith Merriam-Webster's definition of 'future perfect":

Definition of FUTURE PERFECT

: of, relating to, or constituting a verb tense that is traditionally formed in English with will have and shall have and that expresses completion of an action by a specified time that is yet to come.


and the Oxford definition of future perfect:
noun
Grammar
a tense of verbs expressing expected completion in the future, in English exemplified by will have done.

and the American Heritage definition: A verb tense that expresses action completed by a specified time in the future and that is formed in English by combining will have or shall have with a past participle.

Your readers can doubtlessly decide for themselves which grammar authority they choose to believe.   

4

You Asked Me This Question / Re: The role of the bracket in the English system of punctuation

« on: February 17, 2013, 09:52:30 AM »

Surely you mean "whom"...?

5

Use and Misuse / Re: When to use "have had" ?

« on: February 15, 2013, 10:55:17 AM »

Sir, I have done some research on your contention:"Have had" is used to form the future perfect form of a verb, as in this sentence: "I will have had eaten by the time she arrives." I make three observations:

1. The Merriam-Webster does not agree with you; the Oxford does not agree with you; the American Heritage does not agree with you.

2.  My first 12 Google hits for "future perfect" do not agree with you.

3.  It is an undeniable fact that no native English speaker would use such a sentence.

Your statement that with:“I will have had eaten by the time she arrives,” the sense is that the speaker will have finished eating long before the woman’s expected arrival seems to me to give a subtlety to the verb form that it really doesn't possess.   To give such a sense, native English speakers employ determining adverbs of time, e.g. "I will have long eaten by the time she arrives", or "I will have eaten long before she arrives".

Similarly with:“I will have eaten when she arrives.” The sense would then be that the speaker will have finished eating shortly before or right at the moment of the woman’s arrival.   To give that sense, the native English speaker would use "I will have just eaten when she arrives".

6

Use and Misuse / Re: Can and could

« on: February 15, 2013, 10:33:39 AM »

Sir, the follow-up question was posted a second time because Y's query was overlooked not only the first time but the second time, too.   I repeat - any native English speaker who came up with "We certainly will come to Manila if we could....etc" would cause eyebrows to be raised among his peers; and among many a Filipino, too, I suspect.

7

Use and Misuse / Re: Can and could

« on: February 12, 2013, 03:35:56 PM »

Why is there no reply to Y's valid objection to "...as fast as we could..."?   No native English speaker would ever speak in that way.

8

Use and Misuse / Re: When to use "have had" ?

« on: February 12, 2013, 03:33:52 PM »

Are you not going to reply to DaveBox's (correct) criticism of "...will have had eaten...."?

9

Use and Misuse / Re: use of about, in terms of and when it comes

« on: February 12, 2013, 10:16:35 AM »

“not mince one’s words”

When you don’t not mince your words,...etc."

Looks like a shocking double negative to me...!

10

Use and Misuse / Re: use of about, in terms of and when it comes

« on: February 11, 2013, 03:31:42 PM »

I notice, too, sir, a glaring double negative; to whit, "When you don't not mince...etc"

11

Use and Misuse / Re: use of about, in terms of and when it comes

« on: February 11, 2013, 03:29:19 PM »

“not mince one’s words”

When you don’t not mince your words, you express your opinions, ideas or thoughts very clearly, even if you offend others by doing so. Example: “The flustered subordinate didn’t mince his words, telling his superior in the face what an inconsiderate and hateful creature he was.”

Sir. the accepted and well-used idiom is TO HIS FACE.

12

You Asked Me This Question / Re: The role of the bracket in the English system of punctuation

« on: February 11, 2013, 11:07:44 AM »

Sir,   you can offer all the grammar "rules" you wish, but the fact remains:  a native English speaker would be struck dead for speaking or writing in the manner you propose.

13

You Asked Me This Question / Re: The role of the bracket in the English system of punctuation

« on: February 10, 2013, 05:23:00 PM »

Sir. the primary meaning of "already" is "prior to a specified or implied past, present or future tense".   Inasmuch as you have already mentioned a time - "when" - "already" is not only superfluous but nonsensical.   Similarly for "already's" secondary meaning of "by this time".

Since you agree that the sentence is non-conditional, we are speaking of, simply, the ability to do something - in this case "acquire".    From your own recent explanations of "should" an "will", "will" is the appropriate word.

14

You Asked Me This Question / Re: The role of the bracket in the English system of punctuation

« on: February 10, 2013, 10:54:45 AM »

"When you’re done, I’m sure that you’d have already acquired a clear systems view of punctuation in English and can put it to good use in your expositions."

Sir, no native speaker of English would use such a sentence.   The "already" is entirely superfluous, and the non-conditional "you'd" should be "you'll".

15

Use and Misuse / Re: Can and could

« on: February 10, 2013, 10:48:16 AM »

Why is there no reply to Y's valid objection to "...as fast as we could..."?   No native English speaker would ever speak in that way.