Author Topic: Sequence of tenses in sentences that start with the conjunction "when"  (Read 4912 times)

Michael E. Galario

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Hi sir! It’s been a while since I last visited your site. I came across this question by a Facebook member who was asking if this sentence is faulty: “When we got our first blog back in 2010, all we have in mind is to have a personal presence on the Internet.” For me, this sentence would be correct if the idea expressed in the main clause is still true or existing. However, if time is the focus, it should read as “When we got our first blog back in 2010, all we had in mind was to have a presence on the Internet.” Should the second sentence be correct, would it be safe to say that when starting a sentence with “when” and the verb is in the past tense, the verb in the main clause should also be in the past tense? Is my understanding correct, sir? Hope you’ll be able to shed light on this. Thank you. (I’m sorry if the format of this board was not followed correctly. I’m only using a cellphone to access this site now.)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 09:20:38 PM by Joe Carillo »
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Joe Carillo

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You are right that this sentence presented by that Facebook member is grammatically faulty: “When we got our first blog back in 2010, all we have in mind is to have a personal presence on the Internet.” Note that its main clause, “all we have in mind is to have a personal presence on the Internet,” has the verb phrase “have in mind” in the present tense, which is inconsistent with the past-tense verb “got” of the subordinate clause “when we got our first blog back in 2010.”

The general sequence-of-tenses rule for complex sentences is this: When the operative verb of the main clause or independent clause is not in the past tense or in the past perfect tense, the operative verb of the subordinate clause or dependent clause can be in any tense that conveys meaning accurately. Take this sentence, for example: “When the phone rings, she answers it at once.” The verb of the main clause, “answers,” is in the present tense, and the verb of the subordinate clause, “rings,” is also in the present tense; together, the two clauses form a grammatically correct and logical sentence. In this other example, “When you arrive from Tokyo, I will be at the airport to pick you up,” the verb of the main clause is in the simple future tense, while the verb of the subordinate clause is in the present tense; but the two clauses likewise form a grammatically correct and logical sentence.      

On the other hand, when the operative verb of the main or independent clause is in the past tense or past perfect tense, the operative verb of the subordinate clause could only be in the past tense or past perfect tense for the statement to be grammatically correct and logical. The proper construction of the sentence you presented should therefore be this: “When we got our first blog back in 2010, all we had in mind was to have a personal presence on the Internet.” Here, in accord with the past-tense “got” in the subordinate clause, the main clause uses the past-tense verb phrase “had in mind” in tandem with the past-tense “was” as linking verb for the infinitive phrase “to have a personal presence on the Internet” as predicate.

Now take a look at this other sentence: “When he bought his desktop four years ago, practically all of his friends had already shifted to laptops”; what we have this time is a main clause with the past perfect “had already shifted” and a subordinate clause with the past-tense “bought”; together, they likewise form a grammatically airtight complex sentence. It is therefore not safe to say that when a sentence starts with “when” and the verb is in the past tense, the verb in the main clause will also be in the past tense. In fact, as has just been demonstrated, the verb in the main clause could be either in the past tense or past perfect.  

The CCC Foundation’s Guide to Grammar and Writing has a very comprehensive and highly instructive discussion of the sequence-of-tenses rule, even providing charts that show the correct tense relationship between clauses that have different time frames. Check it out now by clicking this link to the guide’s “Sequence of Verb Tenses” page.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 08:35:43 AM by Joe Carillo »

Michael E. Galario

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Hi sir… With that having been said, it is therefore safe to say that the main clause, usually, can be of any tense and the tense of the subordinate clause more often than not agrees with the tense of the main clause. Just a follow up question though: Should that be the case, then the example given above could be considered correct because the tense of the main clause dictates the tense of the subordinate clause. Another example: “I am happy when I saw him.” The main clause here is in the present tense and the subordinate clause is in the past tense. If I am to analyze this, the state of being happy still persists from the time the speaker saw the speaker. My understanding is that the subordinate clause can take any verb tense depending on the meaning that the speaker wants to convey. In reference to the sentence that I lifted from the posting of that Facebook member, can we possibly consider that statement as correct? Another example: “When I went to bed last night, I heard a noise outside my window.” The use of the past tense here is justified. From this example, since the action of going to bed precedes the hearing of the noise, the subordinate clause sets the time in the past. Can we say that if the speaker’s focus is the time the action took place, then the verbs should be in the past tense. However, if the idea in the main clause is still true or still being considered at the moment that the statement is uttered, the use of the present tense is justified. Can this give justification to the first example that I presented? Please do give me additional inputs about this. Thank you, sir.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 11:17:33 AM by Joe Carillo »
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Joe Carillo

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I’m afraid that you didn’t quite get the essence of the sequence-of-tenses rule. I’m saying this because this paraphrase of yours of that rule is imprecise, almost trivial: “… it is therefore safe to say that the main clause, usually, can be of any tense and the tense of the subordinate clause more often than not agrees with the tense of the main clause.” Your use of the qualifiers “usually” and “more often than not” makes the prescribed course of action very fuzzy and not actionable at all. This is the danger of attempting to overgeneralize the sequence-of-tenses rule, which clearly operates by exception: “When the operative verb of the main clause or independent clause is not in the past tense or in the past perfect tense, the operative verb of the subordinate clause or dependent clause can be in any tense that conveys meaning accurately.”

Conversely, when the main clause isn’t in the past tense or past perfect tense, it could only be in the present tense or in the future tense, so a valid restatement of the sequence-of-tenses rule would be this: “When the operative verb of the main clause or independent clause is in the present tense or the future tense, the operative verb of the subordinate clause or dependent clause can be in any tense that conveys meaning accurately.” The tense of the subordinate clause will then be determined by the difference between the time expressed in the independent clause and the time expressed in the subordinate clause.

That’s admittedly a tough concept, so it needs particulars and specifics to be understood. I suggest that you study very carefully the sequence-of-tenses chart provided by the CCC Foundation’s Guide to Grammar and Writing. To clarify here how that concept works, I’ll focus only on the situations when the main clause is in the present tense, after which you can study the rest of the other possible situations listed in that chart. It’s also very important to keep in mind that complex sentences don’t exclusively use “when” to link the subordinate clause with the main clause. Indeed, depending on the time difference between them as well as the intended sense, the subordinating conjunction can range rather widely among these common choices: “before,” “after,” “during,” “as,” “that,” “while,” “because,” and “although.” We must free our mind from the wrong notion that only “when” can be used or is suitable in such situations.

Now, when the main clause is specifically in the present tense, there will be four possibilities for the tense of the subordinate clause depending on the intended sense, as follows:

1. For same-time action as in the main clause, the present tense can be used for the verb in the subordinate clause. Examples: “I get thrilled when I watch action movies.” “She is here although she thinks her presence isn’t necessary.”
2. For an action earlier than that in the main clause, the past tense can be used for the verb in the subordinate clause. Example: “She’s angry because her boss berated her.” “I think that she already left.”
3. For an action in the main clause that extends from some point in the past to the present, the present perfect tense can be used for the verb in the subordinate clause. Example: “They doubt that he has met his sales quota.” “Why is he making all that fuss when has not met his sales quota?”
4. For an ongoing action in the main clause, the future tense can be used for the verb in the subordinate clause. Example: “The police knows when the detainee will be released.” “The father expects that his son will finish college next year.”

You said that your understanding is that the subordinate clause can take any verb tense depending on the meaning that the speaker wants to convey. This overgeneralization is definitely incorrect, as can readily be seen in this example: “She was asleep when I leave tomorrow” (past tense/future tense). The statement is obviously illogical and senseless. Indeed, only when the belief, declaration, or utterance by the speaker is in the present tense can the subordinate clause take any verb tense, as in the following examples: “She believes that the country needs a visionary leader” (present tense/present tense). “We think that the company had missed its sales targets” (present tense/past perfect tense). “They expect that the company will meet its midyear its sales targets” (present tense/future tense). Again, I would like to emphasize that it’s dangerous to make other generalizations about the sequence-of-tenses rule beyond those specified by the general rule. We must always keep in mind that the sense and logic of the statement—not the tense individually taken by the main clause and subordinate clause—are the overriding determinants in constructing complex sentences.

This other example of the past tense/past tense combination for the subordinate clause and main clause is not only justified but absolutely correct: “When I went to bed last night, I heard a noise outside my window.” But again, I must warn you against making the generalization that “since the action of going to bed precedes the hearing of the noise, the subordinate clause sets the time in the past,” and that “if the speaker’s focus is the time the action took place, then the verbs should be in the past tense.” This generalization is easily rendered false by these perfectly acceptable variations of your sentences: “When I go to bed every night, I hear a noise outside my window” (present tense/ present tense). “When I go to bed at night, I would hear a noise outside my window” (present tense/frequent or customary action).

As a rule then in constructing complex sentences, I can’t overemphasize this advice: Go for the sense and logic of the statement and choose the most suitable subordinating conjunction rather than unduly focus on the particular tense of the main clause and subordinate clause.

Michael E. Galario

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Thank you for your invaluable assistance and inputs sir in helping me understand this subject matter better..  Hmm.. Hope that your site here would also have like a videochat feature where we can ask/discuss with you our concerns about the English language.. =) More power sir! =)
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Joe Carillo

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You’re always welcome, youngmentor! As to your suggestion that the Forum provide a videochat feature, however, I’m sorry that it’s not possible. Due to my other commitments, I couldn’t make myself available online for grammar consultation in real time. I can assure you though that I’ll always make an effort and find time to answer all grammar and usage questions posted in the Forum’s discussion boards.