I didn't know/think...

[English Maiden]

Hello again, sir!

Because I have recently become more and more active on Twitter, I have also become more and more conscious about my English, grammar and all. One thing I find extremely difficult to grasp is knowing which tense of verb to use after the phrase "I didn't know/think..." Whenever I start a sentence with that (another concern: should I use "this" instead of "that"?) phrase, I always fumble upon which tense the succeeding verbs should be (should have I ended this sentence with "in," or is it implied already?). For instance, I've just learned that my friend enjoys watching movies, which of the following responses would be correct to say? "I didn't know you LIKED movies a lot." "I didn't know/think you LIKE movies a lot." And suppose I suddenly learne that a friend of mine has been working as a model for years now, which would be the right statement to make? "Oh, I didn't know/think you WERE a model/HAD BEEN modeling" or "Oh, I didn't know/think you ARE a model/HAVE BEEN modeling"? I realize that you already clarified a similar question for me in my previous posting, but I am still quite confused. Please still help me on this one. Thanks again in advance!

[English Maiden]

Are there hard-and-fast rules for constructing sentences beginning with that phrase? And I'm sorry for the typos. I posted this topic using my cellphone, and so there's no way for me to correct my mistakes. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your answers as always. Have a great day!

[Joe Carillo]

The tense of the verb in the relative clause will depend on when you made the declaration. If you made the declaration sometime in the past and you are recalling it in some sort of narrative, use the past tense for that verb: “I didn’t know you LIKED movies a lot.” This is because for all you know, the person addressed may no longer like movies a lot, so that strong liking may no longer subsist. On the other hand, if you are making the declaration right now—the evolving present—use the present tense for that verb in the relative clause: “I didn’t know you LIKE movies a lot.”

For the modeling scenario you described, use the present perfect progressive form for the verb in the relative clause: “Oh, I didn’t know you HAVE BEEN modeling.” This is because the action in the relative clause has been continuing until the present time, a sense evoked by the present perfect progressive tense.

This—you can also “that” for sentence constructions like this, depending on your personal preference—is the rule of thumb you can use for dealing with declarations prefaced by “I didn’t know/think (that) you…” phrases. You’ll get the hang of it in no time at all.

By the way, you say that because you have become more and more active on Twitter, you have also become more and more conscious about your English, grammar and all. I find that rather odd. I didn’t know that Twitter could be that effective in making someone more and more conscious about correct English grammar and usage. Most of the Twitter messages I’ve been coming across are in oddly abbreviated, often fractured English—largely because of the punitive limit for the length of each Tweet message, of course, but I think also because the Tweeter’s grasp of English isn’t that great to begin with. So, my feeling is that Twitter may be great for encouraging brevity and conciseness in expressing ideas (based on my own experience with it by far), but as to promoting good English and grammar usage, I really wonder… At any rate, I certainly think that for polishing your English and your powers of expression, you’d be much better off having a face-to-face or phone conversation with a friend or reading a good English-language book—or perhaps dashing off a substantial posting here in the Forum where your powers of expression in English can really shine. Try this more often and compare it with your Twitter experience in honing your written English.

[English Maiden]

Thank you for your advice, sir. I will do just as you said. And although I understand why you feel that way about Twitter, there are actually a lot of users who, despite the 140 character limit, manage to show through tweeting that they are well-versed in the language. Going back to the topic I started. I actually did some research on it, even re-watched episodes of an English-subbed animè on DVD, and found that everyone chooses (I can't be 100% sure, though) to put their verb or verbs in the relative clause following the phrase "I didn't know/think..." in the past tense -- whether the statement/declaration is being made now or is being recalled in some sort of narrative -- as shown in the examples that follow.

-I didn't know Lady Gaga could sing well.
-I didn't know you drew/could draw that well.
-I didn't think it was possible to lose so much weight through yoga.
-I didn't know you went to school on your motorbike (This is from the anime I watched. The character makes the statement the same time she learns of the fact the character being addressed goes to school on his motorbike.)

So my question now is, would it be a good idea to stick to using the past tense after that phrase at all times, except for when stating absolute or universal thruths?

[Joe Carillo]

No, in statements prefaced by the expression “I didn’t know/think…”, I don’t think it’s advisable to always use the past tense for the verb in the relative clause. The present tense is mandatory when stating an absolute or universal truth, of course, as in “I didn’t know that it’s the Earth that revolves around the sun and not the other way around, until my science teacher told us in class,” but it’s not the only situation that requires the present tense rather than the past tense for the verb in the relative clause. We have to decide that on a case to case basis.

To begin with, take the first sentence you presented: “I didn’t know Lady Gaga could sing well.” The “could” in that sentence actually isn’t the past tense of the modal verb “can”; it’s simply the form of “can” that expresses ability of a general, indeterminate degree (in that sentence, it’s the adverb “well” that indicates a measure of that ability). When you talk now of something that you didn’t know sometime in the past, the form to use is obviously “could.” But if you are talking right now of something you realized right before the moment of speaking, you can use either the modal “can” or the present tense of the verb: “I didn’t know Lady Gaga can sing well” or “I didn’t know Lady Gaga sings well.”

The same thing applies to the second sentence you presented: “I didn’t know you drew/could draw that well.” If you realized that person’s ability to draw just now, right before the moment of speaking, you can tell that person “I didn’t know you can draw that well” or “I didn’t know you draw that well.” The reason a lot of people use “could” as default usage is this: very often, the realization they are talking about took quite some time in coming, not a realization that dawned on them right before the moment of speaking. It therefore shouldn’t be used as a blanket prescription for the usage of “could” for all statements prefaced by “I didn’t know/think…” 

It’s also important to keep in mind that “can” is stronger than the modal “could” but weaker than the present tense of the verb in expressing ability or possibility. It’s therefore perfectly OK for you to make the following statements about a realization right before the moment of speaking: “I didn’t know you can draw that well.” I didn’t know you draw that well.” But if the drawing ability of the person you are addressing doesn’t particularly impress you, you can just say “I didn’t know you could draw.” Without any qualifier like “well,” that’s actually the weak form of the present-tense modal “can,” not the past-tense modal “could.”

As to doing research on the proper usage of “can” and “could” by watching episodes of English-subbed animè movies on DVD, I don’t think that’s advisable at all. I can tell you very frankly that those written translations of foreign-language dialogue are sometimes so laughably inaccurate either from a grammar or semantic standpoint. In fact, my two grown-up sons—both sensitive to English misuse like me—often heckle those translations for their looseness. We get lots of fun together every time that happens, which I must say is very often for comfort.