Author Topic: GIVE YOUR ENGLISH THE WINNING EDGE CHAPTER 11 and 13  (Read 5143 times)

curiouscat

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GIVE YOUR ENGLISH THE WINNING EDGE CHAPTER 11 and 13
« on: June 22, 2010, 09:39:23 PM »
Hi Joe,

    I have a few inquiries about connectives for Chapter 11:

1) If connectives is the general term for
    a) coordinating conjunctions
    b) subordinating conjunctions
    c) conjunctive adverbs

    what class does the following, for lack of a better term, sequential markers fall under?
    First, Second, Third

2) Could you help shed light to the correct structure of the following:
    First of all, second of all, third of all... (Is it acceptable to continue counting with "of all"? At what number can we do without? How would you end this sequence? Do we say "And Lastly"?

3) What about this sequence of connectives:
    Firstly, secondly, thirdly...(Is it acceptable to continue counting with the suffix "ly"? Do we also end it with "Lastly"? It sounds weird. I usually read or hear people start out with "First of all" then they say their first piece. Their second piece just goes on and on without any connective to follow up on the logical structure they started with.

    Some questions about conjunctive adverbs for Chapter 13:

1) Is there a way to remember what markers belong to subordinating conjunctions and conjunctive adverbs, or does it just trickle in one's long term memory through usage and time?
2) What difference, in reading and writing, does a comma make as opposed to a semi-colon?
3) Does Language Register immediately translate to forcefulness of expression?
    ex.
                   So - casual and agreeable
            Because - formal and explicit
          Therefore - Extremely Formal and hard-lined

4) Is there any reason behind the specific punctuation marks used for the type of connectives, like, why a comma must be used for coordinating conjunctions and why a semi-colon is used before and a comma after a conjunctive adverb?


Also, may I follow-up on my "follow-up question" in my previous post: GIVE YOUR ENGLISH THE WINNING EDGE CHAPTER 8?

Thank you,
Curious Cat

Joe Carillo

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Re: GIVE YOUR ENGLISH THE WINNING EDGE CHAPTER 11 and 13
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 11:22:11 AM »
Your statements are in blue text; mine, in black text.

First, let me answer this follow-up question of yours:

(2) The object of the preposition example was an eye opener. I was looking at the wrong part of the sentence. Another question though that I need clarification with.

If the dependent or subordinate clause “where we must take a turn” serves as the direct object of the verb “have”:
     
(a) How is this an object of the preposition if it receives the action verb "have"? 
(b) Isn't it a direct object of the infinite verb " to remind" since it answers the question "what?" To remind about what? "Where we must take a turn."


I’m sorry to have confused you on this point. Let’s look again at the sentence in question: “You have to remind me every time where we must take a turn if you don’t want us to get lost.” I made a mistake in saying that the object of the preposition “to” is the whole phrase “remind me every time where we must take a turn if you don’t want us to get lost.” An object of the preposition can only be a noun, pronoun, noun phrase, or noun clause, and “remind me every time where we must take a turn” isn’t any of them but a verb phrase instead. I think our mutual confusion started when you said that “remind me every time where we must take a turn if you don’t want us to get lost” looked like an infinitive at first glance.” By not putting the preposition “to” in front of the phrase, however, you actually created a verb phrase instead of an infinitive phrase. This, I think, is where I got confused myself, going into a discussion of the non-existence of an infinitive clause and what constitutes an infinitive phrase, then ending up with a statement that “the direct object of the preposition is actually the dependent clause ‘where we must take a turn if you don't want us to get lost,’ the indirect object is ‘me,’ and ‘every time’ an adverbial time phrase.”

You’re therefore right in saying that “where we must take a turn” is the direct object in that sentence, but not of the infinitive phrase “to remind me every time where we must take a turn.”  Instead, “where we must take a turn” is the direct object of the verb phrase “have to remind,” where “me” is the indirect object, and “every time” is an adverbial time phrase. This analysis can be confirmed by this modified question for determining the direct object in this case: “You have to remind me about what?” The pronoun “me,” of course, is the indirect object, and “where we must take a turn” is the answer to the “what” question, thus confirming that it is indeed the direct object of the verb phrase “you have to remind.”

I have a few inquiries about connectives for Chapter 11:

(1) If connectives is the general term for
    a) coordinating conjunctions
    b) subordinating conjunctions
    c) conjunctive adverbs

    what class does the following, for lack of a better term, sequential markers fall under?
    First, Second, Third


That’s right; connectives is the general term for the coordinating conjunctions, subordinating conjunctions, and conjunctive adverbs. Prepositions are, of course, also connectives, and the all-inclusive term for the four types of connectives is function words.

The words “first,” “second,” “third,” and so on are called sequence words. They are adverbial expressions that introduce a sentence or phrase in an enumerative sequence. Sequence words, always immediately followed by a comma, modify the entire sentence or phrase that follows them. When used to start a series of paragraphs, sequence words also become paragraph transition words.

(2) Could you help shed light to the correct structure of the following:
    First of all, second of all, third of all... (Is it acceptable to continue counting with "of all"? At what number can we do without? How would you end this sequence? Do we say "And Lastly"?


Stylistically and for euphony’s sake, it’s best to use the “of all” modifier only for the first item in the enumerative sequence, “first of all”; the rest can simply use the ordinal numbers “second,” “third,” etc., without “of all.” And, yes, as a courtesy to our readers or listeners, we need to say either “lastly” or “finally” to alert the reader that we are about to end our enumerative sequence.

3) What about this sequence of connectives:
    Firstly, secondly, thirdly...(Is it acceptable to continue counting with the suffix "ly"? Do we also end it with "Lastly"? It sounds weird. I usually read or hear people start out with "First of all" then they say their first piece. Their second piece just goes on and on without any connective to follow up on the logical structure they started with.


Yes, we need to continue counting with the suffix “-ly” until the very end, during which we should say “lastly.” Personally, though, I prefer to use only the spelled-our ordinal numbers “first,” “second,” “third,” and so on; they are simpler and certainly don’t have the weird sound of “-ly” sequence words.

People who start out with “first of all” for their first point and don’t mark the rest with sequence words are inconsiderate and not very organized in presenting their ideas. They wrongly and discourteously assume that the sequence of ideas in their heads are obvious to their readers or listeners. Let’s just say that it is part of the social graces to use sequence words for extended discussions, whether written or spoken. 

Some questions about conjunctive adverbs for Chapter 13:

(1) Is there a way to remember what markers belong to subordinating conjunctions and conjunctive adverbs, or does it just trickle in one's long term memory through usage and time?


There’s a mnemonic for seven coordinating conjunctions, of course—“fanboys” for “for,” “and,” “nor,” “but,” “or,” “yet,” and “so”—but I don’t know if there are any for subordinating conjunctions and conjunctive adverbs. In any case, there simply are too many of them to be accommodated in a simple mnemonic, so I would suggest that people simply memorize them and internalize them through repeated use.   

(2) What difference, in reading and writing, does a comma make as opposed to a semi-colon?

In reading, a comma marks a part in the page where the reader must make a brief pause to indicate a separation within the same sentence; in contrast, a semicolon marks a full stop—but one that’s shorter than that of a period—between coordinate clauses or clustered parallel elements in a sentence. In writing, we simply need to make sure that the appropriate punctuation mark is supplied where it’s needed—commas for brief pauses and semicolons for pauses long enough to mark a separation between different ideas.

(3) Does Language Register immediately translate to forcefulness of expression?
    ex.
                   So - casual and agreeable
            Because - formal and explicit
          Therefore - Extremely Formal and hard-lined


It’s the other way around, actually. The forcefulness of expression usually determines the language register. Casual and agreeable talk is usually marked by frequent use of the coordinating conjunctions (“fanboys”). Both casual and agreeable talk as well formal and explicit talk make frequent use of “because,” which is one of the more commonly used subordinating conjunctions. In legal and administrative language, however, the use of the conjunctive adverbs is not only very common but rampant; this is because the conjunctive adverbs tend to make language much more forceful and, well, coercive (a state of affairs that's often used by lawyers and administrators to advantage). We must also keep in mind, of course, that apart from differing uses of the function words, every language register develops its own peculiar vocabulary and idiomatic expressions that set it apart from other language registers.

(4) Is there any reason behind the specific punctuation marks used for the type of connectives, like, why a comma must be used for coordinating conjunctions and why a semicolon is used before and a comma after a conjunctive adverb?

Yes, of course. A comma is used to indicate that the two clauses it connects are co-equal and coordinate with each other; on the other hand, a semicolon is used to indicate that one of the clauses joined by it is subordinate or dependent on the other.

We must also always keep in mind that a comma is a conjunction that also serves to join words to words as well as phrases to phrases on a co-equal basis.