Author Topic: “Precisely determining what ‘determiners’ are”  (Read 17246 times)

Ivan Ivanov

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2014, 02:02:12 AM »
I’ve found the topic about distributives very interesting but I can’t understand some things.

1. Why is ‘no’ not included in the list? For me ‘neither – either’ and ‘no  - all’ look like similar logic pairs.
2. The same with ‘any’. ‘Every student’, ‘each student’, ‘any student’ – why is ‘any’ not a distributive? 

Joe Carillo

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 10:05:37 AM »
By definition, a distributive indicates how individuals or things are divided or shared within a group. All of the six distributives I listed in my previous posting—namely “all,” “both,” “each,” “every,” “either,” and “neither”—are classified as such because each denotes a manner of division or sharing within a group, whether in terms of inclusion (such as in “every woman”) or exclusion from it (such as in “neither woman”).

In the case of the determiner “no,” which means “not any,” it’s not classified as a distributive because it doesn’t denote a manner of division or sharing within a group; instead, it denotes the outright nonexistence of that group. For example, in the sentence “There is no forgiveness, the sense is that of negation of the subject of “forgiveness” and not of its division or sharing nor of exclusion.

The same is true of the determiner “any,” which means “one or some of a thing or number of things, no matter how much or many,” as in the sentence “She doesn’t have any admirer in class.” Like the determiner “no,” “any” isn’t considered a distributive because it doesn’t denote a manner of division nor of sharing within a group; instead, it denotes the outright nonexistence of that group. In contrast, “every” and “each” are distributives in “every student” and in “each student” because they denote a manner of division or sharing within the group of students being referred to.

To give you a much better grasp of the differences between the various English determiners, check out “Determiners, Countability” by Tóth Ágnes of the Pazmany Peter Catholic University (Budapest, Hungary). The PDF file presents a very clear-cut, well-defined classification of these admittedly slippery and sometimes overlapping grammar terms. Ultimately, however, what matters is not so much how precisely you classify the determiners in your mind but how you use them properly in your written or spoken English.

Ivan Ivanov

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 01:25:40 AM »
Thank you very much for the link – indeed, a great ‘book’ (very small and very useful).
I think that after your explanations and reading the book I almost understood the difference. However, I have one more question. Now I see that in “She doesn’t have any admirer in class.” ‘any’ is not a distributive (as well as ‘no’ in other examples). But “She doesn’t have any admirer in class.” is a negative sentence. What is ‘wrong’ with ‘any’ to be a distributive in an affirmative sentence -  for instance, ‘Any policeman can direct you’? We have a group (policemen) and each one of them can do the same thing.
Maybe it is not that important but I’d like to understand the subject clearly and I think that I am close to it :)

Joe Carillo

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 05:14:34 PM »
You’re most welcome, Ivan!

The word “any” is a determiner that’s used to refer to one or some of a thing or number of things, no matter how much or how many. It therefore normally denotes a single entity, not membership or belongingness to a group; as such, it’s of the type of determiner known as a quantifier, not of the type known as a distributive.

Whether used in a negative or positive sense in a sentence, “any” can’t be considered a distributive when the existence of a group to which it belongs—the noun it modifies—is not established. In the negative statement “She doesn’t have any admirer in class,” in particular, it’s clear that there is no group of admirers to belong to or to be a member of; there is therefore no way that “any” can function as a distributive in that situation. Similarly, in the positive statement “Any policeman can direct you,” the existence of a group of policemen is not established and can’t just be presumed from a semantic standpoint; indeed, what we have here is a simple declarative statement that a policeman—simply by virtue of being such and not because he or she is part of a group of policemen—can do the job of giving directions to one who asks.

However, the situation will be different if the negative sentence we took up above were, say, in this form: “She can’t identify any of my six admirers in class.” Here, the premodifying phrase “any of my six” clearly establishes a group of admirers in the class; in this case, the whole premodifying phrase “any of my six” functions as a distributive, but that grammatical function is obviously not performed by “any” as a stand-alone determiner but by the whole modifying phrase instead.

The situation will likewise be different if the positive statement we took up above were, say, in this form: “Any of the ten policemen under my command can direct you.” Here, the premodifying phrase “any of the ten” and the postmodifying phrase “under my command” clearly establishes a specific group of policemen. Together, the premodifying phrase and postmodifying phrase obviously function as a distributive; that function is definitely not performed by “any” as a stand-alone determiner but by the entire set of modifying phrases.

One conclusion we can make from this analysis is that when used in combination, determiners and predeterminers can transcend their stand-alone functions and collectively perform different modifying functions from those they normally do by themselves. Indeed, this is why it’s sometimes difficult and baffling to classify particular determiners and predeterminers by function when they are working as composite modifiers in a sentence.

Ivan Ivanov

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2014, 11:53:19 PM »
It is not easy indeed, but I think that now I have understood it. Thank you very much, Joe!

Michael E. Galario

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Re: Determiners
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2016, 11:31:05 AM »
I know that this thread is already closed but I just want to add something to what was previously discussed about determiners.

While determiners function as modifiers of nouns, they don't generally share all the distinct attributes of adjectives. These are my observations:

1. Determiners cannot be graded unlike adjectives (with few exceptions).
2. Determiners are indispensable part of the language, whereas adjectives are optional.
3. Although determiners function as modifiers, they mean little or nothing by themselves.
4. Adjectives, on the other hand, have meaning of their own.

The above-mentioned observations, for me, clearly set the demarcation line between the determiners and the adjectives.

Having said that, I would also go for the modern classification of determiners as function words.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 01:54:53 PM by Michael E. Galario »
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