Will Taglish stay forever in the Philippines?

[apiong]

When the French from Normandy won the Battle of Hastings in England in the eleventh century they ruled over England and imposed their French language. After some time the French and the Anglo-Saxon languages got mixed up and a new language evolved into what is now known as the English language.

This is where the issue of Taglish in the Philippines comes into focus.

Because of what I feel as the culturally anomalous imposition of English, a foreign language, on Philippine life as a national language (thanks to American invasion and occupation of almost half a century) Filipinos today automatically blend English words into Tagalog resulting in what maybe viewed by foreigners as funny pidgin called Taglish.

If language purists desire Tagalog to be Tagalog and English to be English they might want to eliminate English from the fabric of Philippine life in order to preserve not just Tagalog but also to preserve our other regional native languages.

Whoever wants to study English should do so VOLUNTARILY. Hopefully studying English voluntarily might mean better motivation to learn correct English. Of course, there are foreign words that have no Philippine equivalents like golf, bacteria, etc. and this is where we have no choice but to use them. There is no excuse to use English terms when there are native equivalents.

But unless the nation stops using English for its internal affairs starting with the educational system the highly visible sectors of Philippine society such as the entertainment sector (INCLUDING crooked grandstanding politicians) will continue to mangle both Tagalog and English with such terms like mastudyhan, nagrespondi, magspek, sopdrink, gelprin, boypren, etc.

Should English be eliminated from the fabric of Philippine daily life so that those who study it voluntarily might speak and write better English as a result?

Will funny, embarrassing Taglish stay forever in the Philippines? That would depend on what the nation wants.

Apiong
Livonia, Michigan

[maudionisio]

APIONG: In the old days, Filipinos spoke Tagalog using some Spanish words to express themselves more clearly. Some of these words like recuerdo (remembrance) and ayuda (help) could no longer be understood by the present generation. Gradually, many of these Spanish words have been absorbed into Tagalog. The same thing might happen to Taglish. Or it might go the way of Chavacano, which started as a form of pidgin Spanish bu gradually evolved into a language.

[madgirl09]

And this goes back to my original question on "word evolution" in another thread. who determines what is acceptable in today's language?

of course we should speak according to socio-cultural, linguistic and pragmatic factors: what occasion, who the speakers are, what they are talking about, speakers' roles, etc. taglish, therefore could not be always acceptable as there are just a few specific occasions where it is appropriate. even speaking perfect formal english would be out of place in conversations dealing with intimate feelings or jokes.

but when are taglish coinings included in our dictionary? i think, it is up to those educated individuals who have the direct control of the rules set by "asosasyon linguistika ng pilipinas" and their international counterparts to set the standard. they have the control of what gets published in the media, broadcast on TV, etc. and what could be called formal, casual, or colloquial. i remember asking this same question 20 years ago in graduate sch.-ust: who determines the soundness of a given word? who approves the new list of words for our dictionary? Answer: the educated elite.

not in the same line, but there's somewhat a similar issue here in japan last here ( in one american university) when during the convocation of english educators, the lecturer raised this challenging question: what would you do if in the next 50 years, you would find the rise of a new english variety-india english, that would be widely used by majority of english speakers in the world? (not exactly same wording, but you get the idea.) the lecturer even made use of examples from india's leading newspaper on some odd english, and of all other situations, an excerpt from a philippine newspaper on the use of "furnitures". well, i think, the lecturer's speech was amiss of lots of new grammar rules and modifications or ignorance of the waves on english growth...but using philippine media as one example for "the deviations from traditional grammar rules" was annoying. we continued the arguments in the convocation to our classroom discussions, and i was finally satisfied when our professor was dumbfounded when i answered that question with: just what variety exactly are we speaking now, compared to the english spoken by marlowe and shakespeare? if they were still alive, what could they be saying now?

just thoughts to ponder...
getting sane madgirl

[renzphotography]

Allow me to share with you some observations on Indian (and Pakistani) English:

Do the needful = do what is necessary

Shoe repairing = a shop that repairs shoes

According to the Mr. Smith... = According to Mr. Smith...

Neigh = no

I would like to appreciate you = I would like to show my appreciation to you

You are not understanding = You do not understand

[maudionisio]

MADGIRL; It's possible that Indian English could take over thre world. Remember that US English assumed control of English from the British in the last century through Hollywood films and the triumvirate of Time Magazine, Newsweek and US News & World Report. India has the world's second largest population after China, and majority of Indians, especially in the South,  prefer to speak English rather than Hindi, the official language. Southern Indians see Hindi as a Northern language being imposed on them, although many can speak and understand Hindi. English has come a long way from its Germanic roots. Take the English word “submarine.” It comes from Latin (sub, meaning under and marine, meaning water). Being a a Germanic language, why didn't English use “undersea boat.” In German, a submarine is called “untersee boot,” meaning “undersea boat.”

Renzphotopgraphy:The reason whi Indian and Pakistani English beat around the bush, so to speak, is that they had their beginnings in the 19th-Century correspondences of the British East India Company. Not much have changed since then. But they are coping up through American TV series and newsmagazines like Time and Newsweek. I remember that the use of “while” was a novelty to Indians in the 1980s. Before that they wrote “Whilst.”

[renzphotography]

Maudionisio, obviously you haven't met a lot of South Asians because if you do you will know that they are very direct and rude, contrary to the beating-around-the bush-British-influence you are suggesting.

Much of the Indianism has to do with the difficulty in translating their thoughts in the Indian language (whichever it may be) to the English language. Not very different from the way Filipinisms were developed.

[maudionisio]

Contrary to your belief, I have worked with Indians and Pakistanis for 10 years. I have based my comments based on my experience with them and the stories that they have told me about their countries and cultures. You will be surprised to know that Hindi and Urdu are two different languages. An Hindi speaker would understand an Urdu speaker, and vice versa. Their only difference is that Hindi is writeen in Sanskrit and Urdu in Arabic. It is not true all Indians and Pakistanis are rude as you believe. Many of them who had gone to college are rude, but it is easier to get along with those in the lower classes. Sure Indianisms and Filipinisms pepper the English of Indians and Filipinos. But so do Americanisms, Canadianisms Australianisms New Zealandisms, South Africanisms can be found in the English spoken in thes countries. That's how Latin broke up into the Romance languages. If not for the internet and other modern means of communications, English would have evolved into different langiages, just like English had drifted away from its Germanic roots.It is a given that many Latin and French words have found their way into English. Many Hindi words have also been absorbed into English. Take a llok at the origins of jungle, shampoo, thug, bungalow and other words now common to English. You will discover that many Hindi and other Indian words have taken a foothold in English, centuries before you have developed that fear of “Indianisms.”

[renzphotography]

I quote, "centuries before I have developed fear of Indianisms?" Where did that come from? "Many of them who had gone to college are rude.." you say, look who is afraid now. I have worked and lived with many of them, that is why I know what I am saying. Lower class or upper class, to me they are just the same.

Here in the country, the Indians who were born and educated in India are the most annoying. But those who were raised and educated here and in Western countries have better manners. The only exceptions are those who were born and educated in India but have lived in the country for ten years or more.

Oh, by the way, it would help a lot if you consult an Indian religious leader for insights because I do, which is why I know about the myriad of problems encountered by peoples in South Asia.

And if in case you haven't noticed, many Filipino (Tagalog) words were incorporated in English as well.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boondocks
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carabao
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abaca

[maudionisio]

RENZPHOTOGRAPHY: You have just revealed to the world your utter prejudice and discrimination toward Indians, and your disdain for one of the world's oldest culture. Insulting Indians born in India and patronizing Indians born and educated in the Philippines and the West exposes your “Bumbay” mentality, which is typical among many Filipinos with narrow, prejudiced minds. Naturally you would patronize Indians born in the Philippines and those who have been in the country for 10 years because they have already acquired Filipino customs and habits. The same reason you patronize Western-educated Indians. Your “Bumbay” mentality goads you to look down on Indians. Let me inform you that Indians exert more effort in learning English than we do. Keep in mind that when they learn English, Indians infuse into their brain not only a different alphabet but a completely different script. The various languages of India are written in different scripts that a speaker of a language in one state would be unable to read the script of a language in another state. Imagine the effort they would exert in learning how to write the Latin script of English. Filipinos have more ease in learning English because Philippine languages are also written in the Latin script. As for Tagalog words in English, how many are they? Two—banca and boondocks. Add baguio and juramentado, but they are no longer in common use. Look at you dictionary. Probably one half of the English vocabulary came from Hindi and other Indian languages.

[maudionisio]

RENZPHOTOGRAPHY. Ok, I missed abaca and carabao among Tagalog words absorbed into English. Maybe there are also words from other Philippine languages. But there are few of them compared to Hindi and other Indian languages. Hindi and other Indian words were gradually taken into English through British civil servants and soldiers in India, who used these foreign words to precisely describe their experiences in that country in writing letters home.

[madgirl09]

ok guys, let's go back to talking more on languages and lesser on personality. i have friends who are from india and their principles vary greatly according to their own preferences and personal beliefs, same is true with my other international friends. i am just wondering what characteristics these friends tag me. i hope they see me as a unique individual, not a representative of the whole country i am from...for it could be unfair to others to be attributed same "madness" i have,    ...one thing...i always get complements for us all filipinos  . it's nice to hear positive remarks, so can we just keep to ourselves "other" character evaluations? though so many factors affect the growth of languages including attitudes, for now, let's focus on how we could contribute positively to the languages that help build and improve our lives.

"sake" to you guys! kampaii! cheers!
winter is here...es la hora de vino 

[maudionisio]

Hi! Why do you call yourself MADGIRL?

[renzphotography]

Well Maudionisio, since you patronize things Indian so much then why don't you go there and apply for Indian citizenship. I'm sure they would love to take you in, and treat you as an equal.

By the way, if you think Indians are not prejudicial then you must be so naive. Haven't you heard of the sectarian violence in India? In provinces like Gujarat? Of course, there is the caste system and boy how Indians in the lower castes would love their station in life.

Almost all Filipinos who have worked in the Middle East with South Asians know what Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis, and Sri Lankans are like. Why don't you ask around.

I am only ready and willing to treat as equals those who will treat Filipinos as equals and with respect. Anything less would be utter subservience and these are the words of a proud OFW.

So take off your rose colored glasses and see things for what they are.

[maudionisio]

RENZPHOTGRAPHY:You cannot justify bigotry. Your harsh words for Indians and Pakistanis reveal your inner self.And you have exposed this through the internet  for thr whole world to judge. As I've said, you have shown your disdain for one of the world's oldest culture. The caste system is part of the culture of Hindus. It's not for us to judge whether the practices of a people are right or wrong. The Indian government had already outlawed caste system, although in some areas it is still being practiced. By the way, I don't wear rose-colored glasses. I see the world as it is.

[hill roberts]

Taglish will always remain a vital communication link whether we like it or not. It pains me to say this but having joined Facebook, one can find just too many Taglish commenters that frankly, it puts me off reading their comments. As for text spelling they use on Facebook, it bothers me that that too has become common. Will someone tell these commenters to either write in English or the dialect, instead of mixing the two? Even those TV anchors and newsreaders use more Tagalog than English which wasn't the case thirty years ago. I think it had to do with the Cory Administration. She was a xenophobic that she didn't even allow foreign investments into the country. She put the country in suspended animation for six years and the quality of broadcast journalism went down to a certain degree. If Mar got married thirty years ago, the reporters and anchors would have been using only one language---and that's the English language. Oh, well, it's not my problem.