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tonybau
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« on: September 07, 2009, 12:49:52 PM »

Hi, Joe,

This is in response to your request.

Tony

THOUGHTS ON EDUCATION


 This is an excerpt from my blog at Yahoo, which arose from my early morning musing, that I titled "Baguio in the Next Century":

...

"The education system continues to churn out students, majority of whom are products of an environment where teachers are there only to earn their keep. This has given rise to a different culture of indifferent, dog-eat-dog products who compete with each other, instead of cooperating with each other, to survive. The lack of qualified teachers has resulted in the decline of quality education the city was once proud of. Government schools' capacities have gone beyond limits, rejecting prospective students on account of this. Education now ranks a mere number 20 in the government's agenda, preferring to subsidize the military heavily in order to keep itself afloat in these uncertain times."

For some reason, I was forced to get up early to write my thoughts down before they completely left me. Dwelling on the negative scenario first, I thought that the more positive side I envisioned the city to be a centennial later, would be my next blog piece. And then I thought that this excerpt might make an interesting post for Joe Carillo's forum.

Let me be clear from the very beginning. I am not an educator in the strict sense of the word, as in a member of the academe, and so I speak from the standpoint of an ordinary observer on the state of education in a very small part of the country that I happen to be in. Indeed, these are my personal views.

Being a former president of the school PTA last year, I had a brief exposure to problems faced by the educational system at Baguio City National High School, a government-run school. My added exposure to dire conditions in elementary schools that are beneficiaries of our rotary club, the Rotary Club of Baguio Sunrise, has allowed me a microscopic, but perhaps representative state of our country's educational system.

Just four things: First, overcrowding. Second, teacher overload. Third, lack of basic facilities, like clean water, libraries. Fourth, malnutrition.

Overcrowding, to accommodate new enrollees, creates awesome problems for learning and teaching. Attention spans are sure to go awry what with all the distraction created by students and a noisy environment. Have you ever listened to the sounds of a school in recess with kids making do with staircases and corridors to play in or eat, especially where the school sorely lacks a wholesome place for these kids to take their breaks in? The ratio of students to books, also necessarily falls short of ideal in such a situation. Could you ever imagine a government-run school with a teacher-to-student ratio of 1:20 or 1:15 ever happening in the country, or having a 1:1 ratio for all books used?

Where the ratio of students to teachers is 1:50 on the average, not much time probably happens for more effective personalized interaction because of the sheer number of students to take care of. The paperwork, in addition to added responsibilities assigned to school teachers for various school projects and concerns, is enough to overwhelm them. It would be safe to say that most computations for grades are done manually. For those who are computer-literate and who have the facilities, life would be much easier than the rest. This should be an interesting aspect to look into.

Provisions for general cleaning purposes, let alone clean, potable water for students and teachers alike are sorely lacking. In this particular high school that my son goes to, we felt, as doctors, that clean, running water should be available at any time. We donated 2 water tanks for the purpose. We never saw the tanks installed. When the country was faced by an increasing incidence of AH1N1, the Dep Ed suddenly woke up and required that water, whether running or not, should be made available for hand washing. For a set up that provided nothing for water storage (this was left to the creativity of the teachers) this was a big problem.

An interesting feedback from the principal of a school that was a beneficiary of a drinking water project is that she, as well as her teachers, prior to the project, became cranky by about 11 o'clock in the morning, and even crankier after that. Jokingly, I asked if she tried to find out if the ladies were menopausal. When a water distribution system was established in each and every classroom, they realized that they had been drinking only two glasses of water in eight hours. Coffee provided the rest of the fluids.  Now they were drinking more water. The crankiness disappeared. If the teachers were that affected, what more for the growing children of whom some 80 percent brought no water and relied on juice drinks bought in school, or drank from a polluted spring water bubbling through a rip-rapped wall through which a pvc pipe was stuck in? The kids had been doing this for years!

Anyone can imagine how uncomfortable comfort rooms look like in schools with no such provisions. One teacher even suggested that each classroom should have its own. Without water? Forget it.

We have seen how books being distributed by DepEd, as pointed out elsewhere in Joe's forum, have so many errors that are heaped upon our unwary students, as well as our teachers, who should know better than to just dish them out as is. To think that these were supposed to have undergone very close scrutiny for content. As for references, show me a school with a decent enough library that students would flock to in their spare time. It is sad to note that even libraries have been converted to classrooms for lack of space. They lack books to read anyway so why not convert them to classrooms?

On top of the above, malnutrition affects a significant percentage of students, even in the city of Baguio and probably more so in other institutions in the provinces. Supplemental feeding programs in place for lucky schools help mitigate the hunger pangs of students from poor families. This treats the effect, not the cause. Poverty is the cause. This is why many families bring their kids to government-run schools. Education is free. A constantly hungry kid's stomach and brain are, however, detrimental for these kids. They will soon be dropouts.

To claim that to provide education is the only job of schools is naive, to say the least. A lot more concerns continue to crop up that indicate that a total overhaul of the educational system was needed--yesterday. Four major concerns--if we address them, will probably alleviate them and help make for better products. However, let's not overlook the quality of the kind of education that is being inflicted on our population of young minds. But that's another story.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 10:40:29 AM by tonybau » Logged
Joe Carillo
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 07:52:04 AM »

You have so clearly and frankly identified the problems in the field, Tony; now let's think up and toss around some ideas on how these gargantuan problems might be solved. Any suggestions from the Forum members?
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madgirl09
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 11:05:10 AM »

Believe me, I don't really want to talk much about these being a teacher myself, but I think I could stir more arguments and discussion by giving my honest opinions...

I chose some chunks interesting to me...

"The education system continues to churn out students, majority of which are products of an environment where teachers are there only to earn their keep. This has given rise to a different culture of indifferent, dog-eat-dog products who compete with each other, instead of cooperating with each other, to survive. "

Partly true, but these teachers are ordinary workers too, (not the clegy who have the vow of poverty) who need to survive, feed their family and have a decent life in order to teach effectively. You can not teach with a hungry stomach. I still have this guilt of choosing to teach in private schools in Manila where the children of the elite enjoyed lavish attention with a teacher student ratio of 1:25; how convenient even for teachers to teach students who have taken their breakfast, and so are ready to absorb lessons, for teachers to present ideas in high tech and multi-media visual aids, for teachers to require students to hand in researches interviewing government officials, and so on...things that a public school student find difficult to comply with. They have resources, and money can buy good learning. At least, we have successfully put our school's name top 2 in the list of NSAT takers,sometime in the 90's. At times of course, that parochial school where the rich go didn't have enough funds for other other projects, but their PTA, ever assisting for the benefit of their children would create ways to raise money, establish facilities and organize programs for the continuing education of teachers; awarding outstanding teachers was also a big hit. It was a good partnership between the school and the parents. There's not much you can expect from the government that is drained with finances.  Roll Eyes

But, our guilt continues...Some of our ALT trainees here, I found out, used to teach in Elem. back home too. How and when can we teachers who have left the Philippines for better benefits and earn funds for our own education now help those poor farflung schools we have ignored all these years? I think, many would respond to requests for donations if certain projects for the upliftment of education to the poor be in place.


"The lack of qualified teachers has resulted in the decline of quality education the city was once proud of. Government schools' capacities have gone beyond limits, rejecting prospective students on account of this. "

Teachers are made, not born. There is a need for a complete rehaul of programs starting from the training institutions down to school districts, schools and departments. Make the profession attractive by offering lots of incentives to teachers than just promises of community respect. Doctors may be receiving better services...but I think, our society often forgets the teachers welfare.

"Education now ranks a mere number 20 in the government's agenda, preferring to subsidize the military heavily in order to keep itself afloat in these uncertain times."

Hmmn. In Japan, the opposition just won a landslide victory by topping their agenda with a massive financial support per child of 26,000 yen (13,000 Php) per month, free education until senior high school, more university scholarships, and improvement of the pension system. Economic support contribute much to the academic and employment achievements of citizens. When would our government learn from others?

"Let me be clear from the very beginning. I am not an educator in the strict sense of the word, as in a member of the academe, and so I speak from the standpoint of an ordinary observer on the state of education in a very small part of the country that I happen to be in. Indeed, these are my personal views."

Thank you for your very clear analysis of the current situation of our education using Baguio city as an example (Oh, my hometown is a 30-minute drive away) that reflects your concern and love for our young people. We need more parents like you being involved to solve these pressing problems. Putting yourself in the shoes of the teachers would also make you better understand their side making you move together and aim for your goals. Well, I used to hate some PTA officials too for their too much prying in our school affairs, but in the end, when the fruits were achieved, we realized their importance. Please continue what you have started, Sir.

Just four things: First, overcrowding. Second, teacher overload. Third, lack of basic facilities, like clean water, libraries. Fourth, malnutrition. 

These mammoth problems of our country may be solved little by little in our own simple ways. we know how depleted our resources are, but if the community people, alumni, PTA work with the teachers and students to form a strong force, we can move further. Some schools in the Tagalog Region have launched an "Adopt a School" program, I heard. Our very own town has established websites jammed with classroom pictures so that Filipinos now living abroad coud peek into some improverished schools. Many have now sent small donations and promised units of computers and TV sets. The USA group, for example, opened a library right in the middle of our barangay plaza for our students who study in the nearby schools avail of updated information. There is nothing much we could expect from our government. This was our problem in the 70's; it is still a big problem to this day. Embarrassed


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madgirl09
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 11:13:47 AM »

ulp, can't edit back...sorry again for some punctuations missing, misspellings, unforgivable  Huh
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florlaca
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 02:26:46 PM »


Addressing the symptoms rather than the causes is our common approach to solving problems. Dealing with symptoms is just like administering medicine to ease the pain instead of curing the disease. We must focus on the cause to solve a problem.
 
Poor education is just a symptom of underdevelopment. So are poverty, overpopulation, corruption in government, common crimes, and environment degradation. They form vicious cycles — for example, poor education & poverty; poverty & overpopulation — that make solving them, the way we do, doesn’t seem to get us anywhere. The basic cause of our underdevelopment is poor science and technology (S&T).

While controlling population growth may also facilitate reducing poverty, they cannot be fully achieved without S&T. Developed countries have learned from this. By its pronouncements, our government has long recognized the importance of S&T to economic growth, but it has failed to institute programs to improve science, to enable us to produce useful technologies, which in turn we need for development.

Further, the government has failed to promote the public’s understanding of science, and this ignorance has led to the public’s confusion and difficulty in distinguishing between the causes and symptoms of national problems. Hence, the reason why national progress has remained elusive.

For more, read “Only science can solve poverty” at, http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=72442

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tonybau
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 07:08:16 PM »

Friends,

I'd like to call you friends, if I may, and I am glad we are all in focus as far as the topic is concerned. I was worried, after reading some of the responses, that quotes from the excerpt may have misled others. I hope I have not. Allow me to post the whole article just so it will be seen in the right context--a gloomy vision which I do not adhere to.


Baguio In The Next Century

Early this morning, I wondered how Baguio City, in Benguet Province, The Philippines, the highest city in the country, would be like a hundred years from now. Here's how I imagined it to be.

First the negative. The influx of new migrants to the city, added to the existing residents, mostly migrants, would put the population at about a million. Bursting at the seams in a city originally intended for some 20,000 people, this dense population, heavily dependent on outside resources for basic necessities such as food and water, building materials would be dependent on a power grid run by fossil fuels whose price would have quintupled. Hydroelectric power has now ground to a halt, deforestation having had its toll. The city air is heavy with pollutants. People walk around with masks. The incidence of pulmonary diseases has shot up to unprecedented heights. Ancient fossil fuel-run vehicles still ply the city's routes, barely moving for the congestion. Students, who make up a majority of the migrant population, even if only seemingly temporary, crowd each other on the way to and from school, tiptoeing or jumping over piles of uncollected garbage. Vehicles could hardly weave through this street mess and throng of people. The confusing tangle of overhead power lines has quintupled, power poles creaking at the sheer weight of the load of copper wires. The clear blue sky of yesteryears is forever gone. Children now imagine blue skies instead of seeing them.

The health system just cannot cope up with the high incidence of hospital admissions from communicable diseases, non-communicable diseases (cancer, diabetes, etc.). New viiruses have been introduced into a population whose immune system has been compromised because of the poor health conditions, leading to novel diseases for which health experts are futilely trying to solve with the limited laboratory facilities existent in the area. Mortality and morbidity rates have shot up beyond normal predictions. Many young people are dying at an early age. Expansion, for hospitals which targeted only 150 beds as their maximum capability at the time they were built, can no longer expand. Space has been eaten up by residences no different from the previous ones set up by squatting migrants who deem it their right to set up anywhere they want. Hospital corridors now maintain regular, overworked staff outside of the wards. Never has there been a time of more cranky, even hostile doctors and nurses and paramedical staff. The burden is too heavy.

The education system continues to churn out students, majority of which are products of an environment where teachers are there only to earn their keep. This has given rise to a different culture of indifferent, dog-eat-dog products who compete with each other, instead of cooperating with each other, to survive.The lack of qualified teachers has resulted in the decline of quality education the city was once proud of. Government schools' capacities have gone beyond limits, rejecting prospective students on account of this. Education now ranks a mere number 20 in the government's agenda, preferring to subsidize the military heavily in order to keep itself afloat in these uncertain times.

The national government looks the other way, preferring to let their local city officials deal with the problems that they created in the first place. They have now come to a "hands-off" policy when dealing with such problematic local governments. They are local governments, not under the national government, after all. Tax collection has become a nightmare and has declined to such a degree that basic services could not be deivered anymore. Opportunistic businessmen charge exorbitant fees for services. Prices have skyrocketed.

The city is an incoherent mass of unconcern and apathy. "I live only for myself and my family" is the offshoot culture.

THIS IS NOT MY CITY!

Watch out for the next blog post.



A hornet's nest normally should be left alone. You'll never see the insides of one if you don't attempt to open it up, however. Be wary of the stingers, though. The same is true with our educational system.

tonybau
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Joe Carillo
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 06:48:19 AM »

In response to the posting of florlaca last September 8, it might be apropos to provide a link here to an essay I wrote in 2003, "The Quixotic Quest for Good Teachers," that I posted elsewhere in the Forum on June 13, 2009. The posting also carries the thread of recent responses to that essay.

Now let's continue this very interesting discussion started by tonybau!

Read "the Quixotic Quest for Good Teachers" now!



« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 07:00:33 AM by Joe Carillo » Logged

florlaca
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 04:49:07 PM »


In a separate posting (about academic reforms), I discussed the importance of proper graduate training in the education of teachers for primary and secondary education. And in my earlier comment here, I pointed out that the problem of poor education in the country forms vicious cycles with other national problems, like poverty and overpopulation. The two postings show that improving education has to be done at all levels; and that our national problems (including education) have a common cause (poor science). Attending to this is the ultimate solution or key to all our problems.

The article below stresses the importance of a new approach to science education in preparing the work force for national development. It is necessary to prepare the public in confronting serious problems — like global warming and the spread of disease — that threaten all countries.     


Reinventing science education

Carl E. Weiman

(He received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2001.)

Excerpts
   
Despite the growing importance of science in the modem world, science education remains a remote and minor issue for most people. This is both short-sighted and hazardous. After all, science and technology are not only the primary drivers of growth in the modem economy; they are also increasingly central to many major public policy issues, most notably those surrounding climate change and health care.

To be sure, the need for more and better science education has not been entirely ignored. But little of this attention has been aimed at post -secondary science education, the only level for which there is data showing how to make substantial improvements without enormous costs. Moreover, it is doubtful that great progress can be made at the primary and secondary levels until a higher standard of science learning is set at the post-secondary level.

The past 20 years have witnessed the emergence of research on science education at the university level carried out by scientists in their respective disciplines. The results of this research show that there are tremendous opportunities to improve university science education.

Realizing these opportunities, however, will requite a different pedagogical approach, one that treats science education as a science, with rigorous standards for teaching effectiveness. It t also requires abandoning the longstanding and widespread assumption that understanding science means simply learning a requisite body of facts and problem-solving recipes, and that mastery of those facts is the sole qualification needed to be a science teacher.

Science education research clearly shows that a true understanding of science, as demonstrated by how it is practiced, is not merely about learning information. Rather, it is about developing a way of thinking about a discipline that reflects a particular perception of how "knowledge" is established, its extent and limitations, how it describes nature, and how it can be usefully applied in a variety of contexts. Developing such a way of thinking is a profoundly different experience from learning a set of facts, and requires very different teaching skills.

Giving students a deeper understanding of the world around them is inherently enriching. It will also enable them to make wiser decisions on critically important matters of public policy, and to be far more creative and effective members of the work force.

Full text at, http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2008/02/15/2003401383
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renzphotography
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 11:28:52 AM »


After reading the posts in this forum I can't help but remember a conversation I had back in the 90's with an old Spanish priest so please allow me to share with you what I have learned.

We rented the gym of a high school along Shaw boulevard in Mandaluyong for our company's basketball tournament. I was by the entrance as I watched the game when I notice this old Spaniard observing the activities.

He must be in his 70's at that time. I asked him how things were in that school and then noted how lucky they were to have better facilities to teach kids with. Somehow that must have triggered something inside of him and prompted him to narrate his childhood experience in education.

Considering his age, he attended school in the late 1930 - 1940's. To give everyone a brief backgrounder, Spain declared neutrality in World War II because it has just gone through the devastation of the Spanish Civil War and could not afford to go to another war.

In short, the old priest attended his schooling amid the backdrop of a war devastated Spain. He narrated how he attended a mixed level class in just one room. They had only one teacher and she taught everyone in turns.

It was unimaginable to my mind but the priest was glad because the teacher was very good and he taught them well. Apparently, the teacher did not complain about the little or lack of support he got from the government or even the community, because according to the Spaniard that teacher continued teaching for many decades.

I reckon he was driven by his duty to nation rebuilding and no amount of shortage or hardship kept him from doing so.

I'm sure circumstances are different in our country but I still wonder why many Europeans take teaching as a solemn duty to one's country and people.

I too have had dedicated teachers but sometimes I wonder if their breed still exists today.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 11:39:02 AM by renzphotography » Logged
tonybau
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2009, 12:07:25 AM »

Hi, Everyone!

OOOPS, I missed that (...most of which) should be as corrected by Joe (...most of whom)!

It seems the topic has generated some interesting responses, but just from a few. What is interesting is that I have yet to see anyone from Dep Ed post a reply. Don't you think we are losing out on feedback from the horses' mouths, so to speak? Out of the 307 members of this forum, aren't there any from that sector? Of course, the private sector should also be actively participating here, given their possibly better working conditions than those in government.

tonybau

« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 12:44:35 AM by tonybau » Logged
Joe Carillo
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2009, 07:19:08 AM »

It's either they haven't heard yet about this Forum, tonybau, or something's holding them back. But I do hope that we'd hear from one or two of them sometime soon. It certainly would call for a celebration when that happens because it would mean that our discussions on education and teaching here had not been falling on deaf ears.
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renzphotography
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2009, 07:58:08 AM »

Why not invite educators deliberately Mr. Carillo? I'm sure there are many spicy bits in this forum that would interest an educator or two.

Two points that I would like to raise:

(1) Shift in teaching methodolgy

I remember reading on how people who were educated during the Spanish era criticized the American education system. It was said that in the Spanish (European) method the emphasis was on understanding the lesson but in the American system the emphasis was on memorization or rote learning.

I think this education reform is better understood if one watches "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" and notes the reforms introduced by Dolores Umbridge. The old ways were more qualitative but the new ways were more quantitative and through the movie/novel Ms. Umbridge favors regular quizzes and quantitative scores to monitor progress.

I wonder how teaching methodology could be modified to better serve the needs of today's schools.


(2) Distance learning

We have heard of movie celebrities who took the DepED's home study program. Lately, I have noticed some local television channels show basic lessons in math, science, etc.

What is the success record of the DepED on these distant learning methods, I wonder, and what could be done to promote these? After all, if companies in the west are promoting the work-at-home culture to save office space and travel expenses then why not do the same when teaching kids?

Lately, a Korean call center has set up shop in the country so Korean kids can chat and learn English from Filipinos without leaving home. Why not do something similar here?


« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 07:57:37 AM by renzphotography » Logged
renzphotography
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 09:34:10 AM »

I think one grossly overlooked factor in education is reinforcement at home. It is generally believed that a home environment conducive to education shall promote optimum learning among children.

The underlying psychological explanation for this lies in the "positive reinforcement" element that is crucial in mental conditioning. This goes beyond the carrot-and-stick approach and includes removing distractions to education among others.

One active way parents could participate is through teaching by showing examples because parents (and perhaps other adults in the community) are the living examples children acquire behaviors from.

So what does this PTA talk have to do with teaching English? Based on observation, the most effective way kids could learn English is when they see their parents communicate properly in the language. When I say properly, I mean cut the baby talk and speak the language properly before kids.

I know of many cases where kids of educated but impoverished government employees have acquired quite an enviable grasp of the English language and this came to being only through the strict use of English in the household by all members, except the nanny.

This also explains how some Filipinos who were born and raised abroad could surprise us with their grasp of the Filipino language simply because they spoke Filipino with their parents.

While I see this in varying levels and styles I think the best way to promote English at home is to speak complete sentences and pronounce the words properly. Again, drop the baby talk or the use of the language in the typical Filipino lullaby intonation.

My father was a member of a varsity oration team. I remember him speak to us in English with all the conviction and the matching hand gestures to prove his points. He was very good at extemporaneous speeches and he could readily explain through lucid examples his ideas that were far too advanced for us when we were growing up.

I think this is the best solution to the how-to-learn-English question without putting the burden on the educators at school.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 08:19:37 PM by renzphotography » Logged
maxsims
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2009, 10:32:52 AM »

"...Provisions for general cleaning purposes, let alone clean, potable water for students and teachers alike are sorely lacking. In this particular high school that my son goes to, we felt, as doctors, that clean, running water should be available at any time. We donated 2 water tanks for the purpose. We never saw the tanks installed..."

If I might digress from the subject for a moment.....

I just re-read Tonybau's post and was taken by the above.   I am moved to ask: So what the hell did you do about it?
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tonybau
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 04:18:11 PM »

Thanks for the question, Maxsims.

Recognizing that there was a dire need for water, especially for the ladies who had no decent comfort rooms to use (about 400 in the science classes with only 2 functional CRs so many students would walk to SM to use the amenities there), we, parents, took the initiative to plan for a decent comfort room that would accommodate 10 people at one time. We engaged the parents in a fund-raising effort, soliciting cash and donations in kind. We encouraged all the parents to participate. Sad to say, it was practically only the officers of the PTA who worked. I know that I raised a substantial amount of the funds (that's according to our treasurer).

We brought the project to the attention of the city officials, went to our congressman who told us that he had no available extra budget for that project but that the DepEd may have some surplus from a science fund. The schools division superintendent was called to the meeting and "asked" to look into it. She was very supportive of the project, as was the school principal. Who in their right minds wouldn't support it? But, talk is easy.

There was some money available for 2008 and we were told that the plans, prepared by an engineer parent, had to be revised and submitted to City Hall. It seems that the plans must originate from the DepEd and so the engineers from there came to inspect the site. When their revisions were done, the estimated PhP 700,000 plus doubled! At the very least, we were told that this was approved and that the project would have to go through public bidding.

That was the last I heard of it. Meantime, the school year came to an end and everything was put on hold. We were hopeful, of course.

When classes opened, I was informed that the DepEd Secretary, abolished the PTAs. That was it for me, even if they wooed the PTA officers back after getting the flak from such a hasty decision.

I asked for an update from the schools division superintendent just now but it seems she couldn't pick me up. I presumed she was in a meeting. Here's the text message:

"Good afternoon, Doctor Bautista. Thanks for ur query. Didnt we refer that back 2 th PTA 2 try other  sources?That ws discussd n th SEF brd and also th Div MANCOM and the final agreement ws 2 refer bk 2 u 2 try other sources. Hope u can, doctor. Thanks."

It seems even the past president, who was kept from following it up by the two typhoons, doesn't know about this. His remark, "y nmn ganun? mali dn pl ung folow up namin, kc s citihall."

Make your own inferences.

tonybau
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