Author Topic: "People killed in accident"  (Read 14570 times)

Mwita Chacha

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"People killed in accident"
« on: May 18, 2012, 02:50:49 AM »
Is the sentence 'five people have been killed in a plane crash' grammatically flawless? In my view, for one to be killed there must be an agent such as an animal or fellow human being to do the killing. Consequently, I find the sentence incorrect, and instead the word 'die' should be used in place of 'kill'
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 08:36:56 AM by Joe Carillo »

Joe Carillo

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 01:10:25 PM »
Yes, the sentence “Five people have been killed in a plane crash” is grammatically flawless; it is correct in every respect. It is in the passive voice of the present perfect tense—a form that in this particular case makes the direct object (“five people”) the subject of the sentence, giving it more emphasis and prominence while diminishing the importance of the doer of the action by not even mentioning it. It’s true, as you say, that “for one to be killed there must be an agent such as an animal or fellow human being to do the killing,” but in the plane crash being reported in that sentence, it’s evident that there was no immediate way of knowing precisely what or who caused the death of the fatalities. Of course, that they were “killed” or deprived of their lives is beyond any doubt, and it’s in this sense that the sentence uses the passive-voice, intransitive verb phrase “have been killed”—a form that grammatically doesn’t require a doer of the action. Indeed, the passive voice is the voice of choice and an intransitive verb the verb of choice when it’s not necessary, desirable, or even possible for a sentence to identify the doer of the action at all.

We must keep in mind that in the sentence you presented, “Five people have been killed in a plane crash,” the noun phrase “plane crash” is not an agency but just an event or happening that resulted in the death of the five people. As such, “plane crash” can’t be considered the doer of the action of killing those people; it’s only the proximate cause of their death. For this reason, constructing the sentence in the active-voice form, “A plane crash has killed five people,” would be semantically and conceptually incorrect. For the same reason that the “plane crash” wasn’t an agent of the killing action but only an event, it would also be incorrect to construct that sentence even in the passive voice using “plane crash” as the doer of the action: “Five people have been killed by the plane crash.” To yield the correct sense, that sentence needs to replace the attributive phrase “by the plane crash” with the prepositional phrase “in a plane phrase”: “Five people have been killed in a plane crash.” This, of course, brings us back to the original sentence you presented, which treats the “plane crash” not as a doer of the action but as an event that brought about the death of the five people.

Now to your next point: Can the verb “die” be used instead of “killed” in that sentence? Definitely yes. The sentence will then take this form: “Five people have died in a plane crash.” Notice, though, that this sentence also doesn’t state or identify the doer of the action or agent that killed the five people. All it says is that the deaths happened “in a plane crash”—an event of still unknown cause—and it doesn’t pinpoint a particular agency that killed them.   

It should be clear by now that in English, using the passive voice has more to do with the art of communication itself rather than with grammar considerations. Although the active voice is a handy default vehicle for expressing ourselves clearly, the passive voice is much more appropriate if we want to call attention not to the doer of the action but to the receiver of that action, to the instrument used in that action, or to that action itself. Indeed, in English, we will find that the active voice is particularly unsuitable for situations when—even in the absence of incontrovertible proof—the statement directly and unequivocally attributes an accident, an error, a mistake, or a failing to someone, thus squarely putting the blame on him, her, or it. With the passive voice, we can be scrupulously correct in reporting unfortunate or undesirable outcomes without pointing an accusing finger at anybody, and we can deliberately keep certain things vague or unspoken to let others save face.

FURTHER READINGS:
Shedding the active-voice straitjacket from our written and spoken English

When there are compelling reasons for using passive voice sentences

Dealing with the vexing inverted syntax of passive-voice sentences
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 08:17:55 AM by Joe Carillo »

Mwita Chacha

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 01:44:46 PM »
Thank you Sir for such a satisfying answer.

Mwita Chacha

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 07:08:57 AM »
After completing a couple of months in the Forum and coming across a number of similar cases, I've come to find out that ''killed'' in the sentence ''Five people have been killed in a plane crash'' is a past-participle adjective modifying the sentence subject '' five people.'' I'm totally in a state of disbelief, Sir, that you didn't realize this at once and that you were instead so inclined to describe ''were killed'' as acting as a passive verb in that sentence. 

Joe Carillo

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 07:51:11 PM »
Is the word “killed” in the sentence “Five people have been killed in a plane crash” is, as you say, a past-participle adjective?

I wouldn't think so. In that passive-voice sentence, “killed” is the past participle of the verb “kill”  and its an integral part of the passive voice form “have been killed.” Remember now that as a basic rule in English grammar, the passive voice sentence has the following form:

Subject + auxiliary verb + the past participle of the main verb

So the sentence you presented can be analyzed to have the following structure:

Five people       +      have been       +         killed           +     in a plane crash
Subject                 Auxiliary Verb           Past participle            Complement
                                                                                     of the main verb


The word “killed” obviously can’t be an adjective in that sentence construction, for then the sentence will have no main verb. When there’s no main verb, of course, there couldn't be a sentence to talk about.

In an abstruse way, “killed”—which of course is a past particle form—can also be forced to function as an adjective, as in “Killed people don’t talk,” but it’s such a stilted way to talk. English just doesn’t work that way for words like “killed.” Of course, a past-participle adjective like “dead” works perfectly in such situations, as in “Dead people don’t talk.”

I hope that by now, you’ve already banished from your mind the idea that “killed” is a past-participle adjective in that sentence you presented. It just couldn't be.

For a more detailed discussion of the passive voice form, simply click this link to The Guide to Grammar and Writing sponsored by the Capital Community College Foundation.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 09:46:50 PM by Joe Carillo »

Mwita Chacha

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 05:48:18 AM »
Sir, my contention that ''killed'' in the sentence ''Five people have been killed in a plane crash'' is naturally a past-participle adjective rather than a past-participle aspect is based on the fact that that sentence can't in any way be able to be converted into its active-voice form when one tries to do so. As I perceive it, a legitimate passive voice construction should smoothly be changed into its active-voice form by putting the doer at the beginning of the sentence and eliminating the preposition ''by'' from it. So we can see, for example, ''The ball was kicked by John'' can be changed without any difficulties into ''John kicked the ball'' or ''The decision was made by them'' into ''They made the decision,'' But attempting to convert ''Five people have been killed (by XXX) in a plane crash'' into its active voice sentence will definitely create the thoroughly ''out of line'' construction ''XXX killed five people in a plane crash,'' which means the doer doesn't fit not only in an original passive-voice sentence but also--and so terribly--in a resulting active-voice sentence.
Now to show that sentence has taken on a state of being verb instead of an action verb, I will attempt as follows to break it up into its major components:
1) ''Five people'' = Subject
2) ''have'' = Auxiliary Verb
3) ''been'' = Linking Verb acting as the Main Verb of the sentence
4) ''killed''= Past Participle acting as a Subject Complement
5) ''in a plane crash'' = Prepositional Phrase acting as an Adjective Complement. Have+Been forms what's known as a ''verb phrase'' for the sentence, contradicting your argument that the sentence becomes verb-less if we regard ''killed'' as a past-participle adjective.
I hope I've managed to make my case clearer this time.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 07:55:42 AM by Mwita Chacha »

Joe Carillo

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »
Based on your latest posting, I now know why you think that the word “killed” in the sentence “Five people have been killed in a plane crash” isn’t a verb but a past-participle adjective. That mistaken idea actually stems from your incorrect notion that “a legitimate passive voice construction proves itself to be so if it can smoothly be changed into its active voice by eliminating the preposition ‘by’ from it.” That notion is downright false, and I will hasten to add that it proceeds from a totally wrong premise.

In English, as you must know very well, there are three kinds of verbs—transitive verbs, intransitive verbs, and linking verbs—and there’s a big difference in how transitive verbs and intransitive verbs work in a sentence. Indeed, one of the blind spots that I discovered in how English is taught over the years is that teachers don’t know and learners don’t learn this unique characteristic of intransitive verbs: When an intransitive verb is used as main verb in an active-voice sentence, that sentence couldn't possibly have a passive-voice construction using that same verb.

Consider the intransitive verb “shift” in the following active-voice sentence:

“Many Internet users shifted from dialup service to broadband.”

Now try constructing that sentence into a passive-voice form using “shift” as the verb. It just can’t be possibly done. In fact, the only way to render that sentence into passive-voice form is to relieve “shift” of its job as the verb, make it the subject of the sentence instead, and let some other verb like, say, “noted” perform the action:

A shift from dialup service to broadband was noted among many Internet users.”

In the case of the verb “kill,” it is working as a transitive verb in the following sentence:

“The heavy snow killed the flock of birds.”

In such cases, it is perfectly possible to render the sentence into the passive-voice form—by making the object of the verb “flock of verbs” as the subject of the sentence instead:

“The flock of verbs was killed by the heavy snow.”

But then we can’t do the reverse of this process—that is, render a passive-voice sentence into the active-voice form—in the case of a sentence that uses an intransitive verb as its operative verb. Try doing that to the following sentence:

“Five people have been killed.”

There’s really no way to convert that active-voice sentence into a passive-voice sentence. This, to me, is clear and incontrovertible proof that the passive-voice form “have been killed” is in itself a self-contained grammatical form , in which the verb stays permanently intransitive by virtue of being an integral component of the passive-voice form.

Of course, when that same passive-voice sentence is modified with the addition of a prepositional phrase complement like, say, “in a plane crash,” it becomes seductive to entertain the notion—a patently wrong one—that the passive-voice sentence could have an active-voice equivalent.  Indeed, the following sentence of yours,

“Five people have been killed in a plane crash”

can be correctly rendered in the following active-voice form:

“A plane crash has killed five people.”

But then a journalistic sleigh of hand—some would call it changing the grammatical goalpost—has been committed in that active-voice rendition. The event itself —“a plane crash”—has been made the doer of the action, something that semantically speaking is far from the intended sense and meaning of your original passive-voice sentence, “Five people have been killed in a plane crash.”

The situation would be different, of course, if your original sentence were in the following form, where “a plane crash” is the doer of the action or the agent that did the killing:

“Five people have been killed by a plane crash.”

This time we can legitimately render that passive-voice sentence in the active-voice form, with “a plane crash” becoming both the subject and doer of the action, and “five people” becoming the direct object of the verb “killed”:

“A plane crash has killed five people.”

But we should note clearly here that “kill” is not anymore working as an intransitive verb but as a transitive verb, which as we know always requires a direct object. (As we know, many verbs in English have that dual character depending on how they are used in a sentence.) What has happened is that by the simple expedient of using the preposition “by” instead of “in” in the passive-voice sentence, we changed “a plane crash” from object of the preposition to doer of the action. In the process, “kill” got transformed from an intransitive verb into a transitive verb, thereby fundamentally changing the grammatical ballgame in that sentence, so to speak.

This, I must add, is the danger of unilaterally breaking up sentences and their syntactical elements for grammatical analysis, as you have done at the end of your latest posting. The very act of breaking them up very often changes the character of the component elements, in much the same way that electrolysis breaks up water into hydrogen and oxygen, which of course are entirely different chemical elements with entirely different behaviors.

Mwita Chacha

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 12:58:22 PM »
Sir, do you have any particular passive-voice sentences that can't be converted into active-voice forms? By showing me them, it would make your case more believable to me that not all active-voice constructions can be changed into passive-voice.

Joe Carillo

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Re: People killed in accident
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 04:58:21 PM »
A passive-voice sentence using an intransitive verb to denote the action can’t be converted into the active voice if the doer of the action is not specified.  Examples:

“The seat was taken.”
“The lovers were seen kissing.”
“The lazy clerks were berated.”
“The customers were cheated.”
“The steel bars were welded.”

Try and try as you might, there’s absolutely no way you can convert the sentences above into the active voice.

But passive-voice verb forms like “was taken,” “were seen kissing,” “were berated,” “were cheated,” and “were welded” can be converted into active-voice forms if the passive-voice construction specifies the doer of the action, as in the following sentences:

“The seat was taken by the amorous couple.”
“The lovers were seen kissing by the private detective.”
“The lazy clerks were berated by their manager.”
“The customers were cheated by the rogue vendor.”
“The steel bars were welded by the window-makers.”

The active-voice form of the sentences above would then be as follows:

“The amorous couple took the seat.”
“The private detective saw the lovers kissing.”
“Their manager berated the lazy clerks.”
“The rogue vendor cheated the customers.”
“The window-makers welded the steel bars.”

Note that in these active-voice constructions, the intransitive verbs metamorphosed into transitive verbs. Indeed, as you will discover in English along the way, many of its verbs can act either transitively or intransitively depending on how they are used in a sentence.

However, there are verbs that are intransitive through and through—meaning to say that they can never take a direct object no matter what. As such, they can never be used to form passive-voice sentences. Examples are result verbs like “appear,” “arrive,” “come,” “seem,” “fall,” “tremble,” and “laugh,” as in the following active-voice sentences:

“The comet appeared.”
“The tourists arrived at noon.”
“The examinees came unprepared.”
“The guest seemed upset.”
“The last apple fell from the tree.”
“The train trembled in the rickety tracks.”
“The audience laughed to their hearts’ content.”

I’ll give you 15 minutes to try to render any of the above sentences in the passive voice, and I’ll bet you just can’t do it. Nobody can. That’s just the way it is with most of the result or outcome verbs in English. They are intransitive verbs and as such they can’t pass on their action to anything in the sentence, meaning that they can’t have a direct object or take one. And having no power to transmit their action to a direct object, they generally dissipate their action in themselves.

Mwita Chacha

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Re: "People killed in accident"
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 12:02:34 AM »
I'm sorry for a late response, Sir. That was due to a terrible network outage over this past three days in this part of the globe. As to the conversion of those passive-voice sentences you've supplied into active-voice constructions, I must say confidently that I can do so with such a remarkable easiness, as opposed to what you believe. For example, letting 'Maria' to be the subject or doer in the active-voice sentences and randomly picking only one of the sentences for the sake of saving time, we will certainly get this grammatically and semantically acceptable sentence ''Maria saw the lovers kissing.''
But I'm absolutely sure that this argument wouldn't be protracted this far if I had perhaps made it in a clear and an effective way since the beginning. First of all I should maybe note that I don't contest the reality that not all active-voice sentences can be made to become passive-voice sentences, because I'm already aware of how the intransitive verbs operate in English sentences. My argument rather centers on the fact that for a sentence to qualify as a passive-voice, it has to be transformable into its logical active-voice version without any difficulty.
Now to get the sense of what I'm talking about and to improve my line of thought, let's have a look at this two outwardly similar but inwardly completely different constructions: ''He has been killed in a plane crash'' and ''He has been killed at a bus stand.'' At first blush both sentences appear to use ''be'' as an auxiliary verb, but at closer look it's the latter that so uses the verb while the former applies it a its main verb. Stated differently, the former is never a passive-voice sentence while the latter is.
That the two sentences have applied verb ''be'' in a very different way can also be proved, as I argued earlier, by finding out the possibility of each to be converted into an active-voice sentence. So if we let again Maria as our subject or doer for the active-voice sentence, the latter will change into this sensical, semantically unassailable construction: ''Maria killed him at a bus stand.'' But things never are as smooth if we attempt to do same thing on the former, in which case we'll surely end up with this impossible, semantically defective construction: ''Maria kiiled him in a plane crash.''
It is indeed the impossibility of the former to be changed into a logical active-voice sentence that accounts for the case I've been promoting that not all ''be+past-participle'' constructions falls under the class of passive-voice constructions, as you want to suggest. There are as many sentences that uses the past participle as an adjective rather than an action verb, and that's simply shown by looking at how the ''be'' behaves and at how its corresponding active-voice sentence would make sense.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 05:18:57 AM by Mwita Chacha »

lanshan75

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Re: "People killed in accident"
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 02:44:53 PM »
I am totally agree with what you said,but my English is poor, sometiomes I don't know how to express my feeling,I just want to make some friends who can help me in my English and share the happiness with each other.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 10:37:31 AM by Joe Carillo »