Author Topic: Between 'these' and 'that'  (Read 8372 times)

Miss Mae

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Between 'these' and 'that'
« on: March 19, 2012, 07:31:53 PM »
I finally made up my mind. I'd use 'these' in this sentence: Clean, accessible, and diverse—the coast of Zuid Holland is just like these.

But did I make the right choice? 'That' also sounds right...

Joe Carillo

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 11:47:38 AM »
This sentence of yours is grammatically incorrect:

"Clean, accessible, and diverse—the coast of Zuid Holland is just like these."

You can't use the pointing pronoun "these" or "those" to refer to adjectives, only to nouns, pronouns, and other noun forms. To refer or point to adjectives as a collective antecedent in such sentences, use "that" as follows:

"Clean, accessible, and diverse—the coast of Zuid Holland is just like that."

That sentence of yours can use "these" only as a qualifier of an attribute noun describing the antecedent list of adjectives, as follows:

"Clean, accessible, and diverse—the coast of Zuid Holland has these attributes."

 

Miss Mae

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 02:38:26 PM »
Thank you  ;)

How about the sentence From children to music lovers to antique collectors, they can have a drink in the outdoor cafés here, dine in one of the restaurants, or shop in the covered shopping centres? Is it right that they is used to refer to the children, music lovers , and antique collectors?

Joe Carillo

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 12:11:45 AM »
The syntax of this sentence is defective and confusing:

"From children to music lovers to antique collectors, they can have a drink in the outdoor cafés here, dine in one of the restaurants, or shop in the covered shopping centres."

The pronoun "they" is improperly positioned in a way that it can't be a collective pronoun for the three antecedent subjects in the prepositional phrase upfront of the sentence. The result: that prepositional dangles and is unable to latch on to the subject "they" of the main clause.

Here's a reconstruction of that sentence that solves the problem:

"Children, music lovers, and antique collectors can have a drink in the outdoor cafés here, dine in one of the restaurants, or shop in the covered shopping centres."

Still, even in that corrected sentence, there's something iffy about the listing and the order of the kinds of customers of the commercial establishments. What's the logic of the primacy of children in that list? Why are they being listed in the same league as music lovers and antique collectors? Can't children be music lovers and antique collectors, too? Can children go to those establishments alone, without adult companions?

This is why from the available information in that sentence, it would make more sense to reconstruct it this way to address those concerns:

"Music lovers and and antique collectors can bring along their children and have a drink in the outdoor cafés here, dine in one of the restaurants, or shop in the covered shopping centres."

Sentences must not only be grammatically correct but plausible and logically airtight as well.

 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 02:20:05 PM by Joe Carillo »

Miss Mae

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 02:15:01 PM »
You're right! Strike two  :-X

mika23

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 10:27:01 AM »
I think you are right. " these" is the correct answer.

blackmasks

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 11:07:33 AM »
hix, my syntax in English was poor all the time, in this case let's guess "these"



artificialgrass

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 11:00:23 AM »
Thats an interesting post.Thanks for sharing superb information.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 09:49:29 AM by artificialgrass »

cateespimsleur

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 05:48:11 AM »
Thanks for posting. I think many were confused regarding this.

AlenaAlexandrova

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 01:16:00 AM »
Really I know the difference between these and that but you explain it here very well, your post and reply of the post is truly informative. I really appropriate your effort for improve English grammar.
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lanshan75

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Re: Between 'these' and 'that'
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 02:44:04 PM »
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